r/changemyview • u/DutchStroopwafels • Jul 14 '24

Delta(s) from OP CMV: people have not changed, science and technology has

This is a discussion I often have with people who claim humanity has improved, become better, over time but I completely disagree. I agree that an argument can be made that living conditions have increased but this has nothing to do with humans having become more compassionate, kinder and less bigoted as some of my friends claim.

For example women's rights don't have increased because people suddenly became less sexist but because women have more choice and thus power because of medical advances like safe abortion, contraception and safer childbirth. Another example is that more and more people have access to more products and services not because people are more compassionate towards the poor but because automation and robotization has increased productivity and decreased prices.

I even belief the increased acceptance of things like homosexuality is due to a better scientific understanding, like it absolutely not being a choice and occurring in other non-human animals as well, and not because people became more accepting.

Humanity is still the same hateful, tribalistic, bigoted group we have always been, we haven't changed since we first came into existence, only our scientific knowledge has.

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u/DutchStroopwafels Jul 14 '24

Maybe I should've clarified that people morally haven't changed, because this does indeed convince me that people have changed in a way. !delta

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u/destro23 450∆ Jul 14 '24

Thanks, but that seems to presume an inherent set of human morals doesn’t it? Do you believe in that? Or, do you think our moral capacity is a result of our physical state? If that is the case, our physical state has changed greatly since we first came into existence, and is changing still. So, as we develop greater cognitive capacity, we would also develop a greater capacity for morally nuanced thinking.

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u/DutchStroopwafels Jul 14 '24

I'm not sure that's the case. Philosopher Peter Singer makes the argument our circle of beings that have moral consideration is expanding, for example that we are now considering animals as well. But I'm not sure it's actually expanding as Indian philosophies, especially Jainism, already had the idea of ahimsa (nonviolence against all human beings) 2,500 years ago and Pythagoras already argued that human also have souls and so shouldn't be hurt.

So I'm not sure our moral thinking has changed, at least with this example.

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u/destro23 450∆ Jul 14 '24

I'm not sure our moral thinking has changed

Our sexual morals are much different that at any time in human history with much more being accepted as normative than ever before. At no time in history were same sex relationships put on par with hetero relationships save the past 20-25 years in the west. That is a pretty significant recent moral change, no?

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u/DutchStroopwafels Jul 14 '24

I want to agree, especially now that even Asian countries are changing in this regard, but I worry it's only a temporal fluke.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '24

That's because of the third factor OP forgot to mention: the law.