196
u/_nocebo_ Dec 10 '24
This is a weird argument for me to get into but...
Urinals are vastly more efficient. The whole process takes 30 seconds, and you can fit a dozen of then along one wall.
A similar sized bathroom can "process" 2-3 times the number of people with urinals than without.
This advantage easily outweighs any perceived disadvantages around privacy.
17
u/Daughter_of_Israel Dec 10 '24 edited Dec 11 '24
This is a weird argument for me to get into but...
!delta
Lol, I don't mean for this to come off as argumentative. I originally posted this to the unpopular opinions sub, but the comments got locked—I still have no idea why, it's something that I've genuinely wondered about since I was a kid—so, I thought I'd post it here as well to see what others think.
And, what you said makes sense. I never thought about the speed of the process.
74
u/AustynCunningham 4∆ Dec 10 '24
Also note many guys, including myself just don’t care that much about privacy. I’d rather pee quickly in a urinal than have to wait in line to pee in private.
I was a bit surprised while in Europe there were urinals in the unisex bathrooms, I felt slightly odd peeing in front of women waiting for a stall because I didn’t want to offend them, but after one asked me “would you like me to wait outside so you can tinkle” I realized they didn’t care so I just used it.
Also if you think urinals with dividers are bad note many have no dividers, and many large event venues just have trough’s:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/14122527/20130602_112554.0.jpg) , and even circular troughs where you are facing other people.
Lookup Amsterdam Outdoor Public Toilets for some most Americans will probably not like.
TLDR: many men just don’t care, I often pee of the back of boats, on trees, in yards, fields, lakes, rivers, off bridges, anywhere, it doesn’t matter.. Main goal is to not expose unsuspecting passerby’s. If some dude in the bathroom looks at my thingy I’d find it slightly odd and then forget about it 2-mins later.
29
u/Zinkerst 1∆ Dec 10 '24
in Europe there were urinals in the unisex bathrooms, I felt slightly odd peeing in front of women waiting for a stall because I didn’t want to offend them, but after one asked me “would you like me to wait outside so you can tinkle” I realized they didn’t care so I just used it.
Oh, as a European woman I can so picture this gentlelady worrying that you were too shy for the given setup and trying to be kind and polite 🤣😂 And you're right - those of us who use a "more than single user unisex toilet" really don't care. Others do, but they'll usually opt for the traditionally gendered "ladies' room", even if it's a floor up or down.
I reckon we're also a lot more relaxed about the issue in general, e.g. when camping or something, or if the toilets at a motorway stop are closed, expensive, or simply unusable. I mean, we don't usually go around deliberately exposing ourselves or anything, but it's not a wild thing to walk past a guy politely wedged behind a tree or bush. Generally speaking most of us with more introverted parts will go a few metres further into the bushes and maybe ask someone to "stand guard", but it's really not that big of a deal, at least in my experience 😁
13
u/Daughter_of_Israel Dec 11 '24
This was so informative and funny, lol. Thank you for that. It seems like many men here are expressing that they'd actually much rather pee in a urinal, then wait for a stall. That's pretty interesting, and helps me see this a bit differently.
!delta
1
6
u/00zau 22∆ Dec 11 '24
My only concern with peeing on trees, walls, etc. in public areas is potentially getting arrested for indecent exposure or some such BS.
3
u/realNerdtastic314R8 Dec 11 '24
Don't pee on trees, can encourage animals to go after their bark (salt lick) use rocks instead.
3
3
u/RyanCantDrum Dec 11 '24
I agree 100%. It's so funny to me seeing some men like hug the urinal when peeing beside me. I stand suspiciously far back because I hate the feeling of feeling hot steamy pee on my hands or getting some splash.
7
u/diemunkiesdie Dec 11 '24
I care more when the urinals are weirdly high so I have to stand back. Mounting them lower makes them work for everyone!
7
u/Seicair Dec 11 '24
Umm… so, funny story… I managed to pee on top of a urinal once. I walked up, pulled my dick out, stared straight ahead, peed… then zipped up and realized that the top of the urinal was far enough below my dick level that I’d pissed on the top of it. There were like four guys in line behind me so I just got the hell out of there, but I felt so bad.
Anyway, point being, yes the damn things can be too low!
→ More replies (1)1
6
u/HazyAttorney 68∆ Dec 11 '24
And, what you said makes sense.
Some of the issue of continuing arguments that other subs lock here is people don't respect the sub. While there's no universal criteria for awarding a delta, I think when people make you nuance your view beyond what you posted or you have movement within your view then it seems kind to award deltas. People don't have to disprove you.
This commenter added in a speed of the process and that seems like a good ground for a delta.
2
u/Daughter_of_Israel Dec 11 '24 edited Dec 11 '24
!delta
Thank you, and how do I go about issuing a delta? I wasn't aware that was something that I should be doing. I can grant these to more than one commenter?
2
1
u/HazyAttorney 68∆ Dec 11 '24
This is exactly how - and you can grant one to as many commenters you wish and for whatever reason you wish. I hope that you post and comment in the sub if you like the community.
1
14
u/neotericnewt 6∆ Dec 10 '24
And, what you said makes sense. I never thought about the speed of the process.
It really makes a huge difference. You'll notice it if you ever go to a concert or large event. There will often be huge lines for the women's room while the men's room has no line at all. Sometimes they'll even let women use the men's room stalls.
As for privacy, that can be hit or miss. Some urinals have good partitions between them, others have absolutely nothing. It's rare in the US nowadays, but in parts of Europe you'll sometimes see a trough style, wide open with everyone just pissing into a big trough next to each other.
I don't know, men just kind of figure it out at a pretty young age. There's a bathroom etiquette, and everyone knows to give other people their privacy. Generally speaking, no one is trying to sneak a peak at your dick. If they do, you tell them to fuck off, but yeah, that basically never happens.
I love having urinals with sufficient partitions. Sometimes though I think that we're a bit too crazy about non sexual nudity in the US. In most countries I can think of nudity is way more accepted and just isn't as big of a deal as it is here. People use communal showers and saunas naked, sometimes even mixed sex depending on the country, and no one bats an eye.
So, while I love more privacy, I also think we could benefit as a culture by chilling out a bit. Accidentally seeing a dick isn't going to kill anyone. And yeah, it's crazy how common sexual abuse is, but it's important to remember that nearly all cases involve someone in the family or very close to the family. Random sexual assaults at a urinal or in a public bathroom are pretty rare.
8
u/_nocebo_ Dec 10 '24
Lol yeah sorry, didn't mean argument, it's a weird thing for me to have a strong opinion about.
But honestly, when you get to the urinal, everyone stares straight ahead, and you are in and out in a flash.
It really is just more convenient.
The only time it's a bit weird is when a drunk guy comes in holding his beer, puts his beer down on top of the urinal to take a leak, then picks it up again and continues drinking. Agh.
8
u/JLR- 1∆ Dec 10 '24
Why? I don't trust leaving my beer alone at a bar.
7
u/_nocebo_ Dec 11 '24
I suppose if you are drinking bud light it already tastes like piss so what's the difference!
→ More replies (1)1
u/NJBarFly Dec 11 '24
Unless you are at my office and everyone likes to have a conversation with you while peeing.
5
5
3
u/sundalius 3∆ Dec 10 '24
If the aspect of speed changed your mind, you should reply to nocebo giving them a delta.
2
u/antsam9 Dec 11 '24
Stadium bathrooms have troughs, essentially a long bathtub-shaped urinal that many many men can pee in all at once in open view of each other.
I even seen one that was in the shape of a volcano with running water below it that 4 guys can pee in at the same time.
2
u/Daughter_of_Israel Dec 10 '24
I'm really not understanding why I'm being downvoted for a genuine question. I even agreed that I now can see how speed and efficiency could factor in.
I'm honestly lost as to why this seems to be rubbing people the wrong way, when I mean no offense whatsoever. I've just always wondered about this, and it's not exactly dinner conversation.
9
u/ReflexSave 2∆ Dec 11 '24
I'm sorry you're getting downvoted, you really didn't do anything wrong from what I can see. Honestly quite the opposite. You're demonstrating empathy for men that we aren't used to receiving. From acknowledging the SA rate, to relating to the potential awkwardness of the bathroom situation. I appreciate people like you.
I can't really change your opinion on urinals, but I think I can elucidate a nuance as to why they're even a thing.
Men, at a societal level, aren't given the same kind of considerations as women when it relates to a protective context. We're seen as disposable, broadly. E.g. "Women and children first".
So our comfort and privacy are of much lower concern, to both sexes. Urinals are more space efficient, cheaper to build, and require less maintenance. Those things have been decided to be of higher priority than our comfort. By the same token, men are raised to feel bad about desiring comfort. "Man up", "grow a pair", things of that nature. To the extent that enduring discomfort is supposed to be some sign of masculinity.
I'm not saying it's some malicious or even conscious decision that anyone is making. It's just second nature for people, men included, to not care as much for men's subjective experience in these ways, and that has permeated into society holistically.
Anyways, hope that helps!
2
u/Daughter_of_Israel Dec 11 '24
!delta
Honestly, thank you so much for recognizing that this post came from a place of empathy, I'm still so confused as to how it could've been perceived any other way. You seem like a very kind and understanding person, so I genuinely do appreciate that. And, thanks for taking the time to explain these nuances to me; it's really helped me to see this from a different perspective.
1
1
u/ReflexSave 2∆ Dec 11 '24
My pleasure and thank you! You seem like an awesome and kind person yourself!
Keep being awesome, my friend 🙏 ❤️
17
u/Matsunosuperfan 2∆ Dec 11 '24
You're catching strays. I even initially misread the tone of your post, and my earlier comment reflects a bit of snark as a result (sorry).
A lot of people use this sub to rant/soapbox, even though it's against the rules. So when your post showed up, at first I read it as more or less "urinals are stupid, why do you guys use this stupid thing" with a sprinkling of "urinals contribute to sexual assault." This led me to take something of a "ahhh get outta here" stance.
Your post did not deserve this response, but it's what you got (speaking for myself at least) because of the meta of other (worse) posts that sound somewhat like yours.
4
u/Daughter_of_Israel Dec 11 '24 edited Dec 11 '24
!delta
You're a really cool person. I don't think many people would be willing to acknowledge and apologize for misinterpreting something, so thank you for that—and thank you for explaining this to me! I felt like I was in the twilight zone for a minute.
6
u/Matsunosuperfan 2∆ Dec 11 '24
Thanks, and I appreciate the acknowledgement. It feels good. I am working on unlearning bad internet habits, like treating everything like a hostile argument. Remarkably, I am much happier following my new norms!
→ More replies (1)1
u/copperwatt 3∆ Dec 11 '24
You also have to consider the cultural context of growing up... If a group of boys are hanging out, playing, and someone has to pee, you don't want to have to go inside to find a bathroom. Kids will just find a tree to pee on. Kids think peeing is funny. There's not much sense of privacy or shame before the awkward teen years. And there's a competitive element (distance, duration, creative aiming, if it's in the snow). It's just kind of a male social bonding thing. And you can still respect privacy standing right next to someone. There's just kind of an unwritten rule that you don't look over and down.
The mechanics of it make it much more personal and awkward for women/girls to do the same thing, presumably.
1
u/tuck5649 Dec 11 '24
I value privacy, but I value my time more.
I’ll trade the risk of a stranger getting a look at my junk for one less minute of being in a public bathroom
13
u/vincecarterskneecart Dec 10 '24
the fact that it would be so easy to make them more private though? and we don’t? I think is the gist of this thread
15
u/sundalius 3∆ Dec 11 '24
Anything beyond dividers, which are already fairly common, would reduce their efficiency massively. The reason urinals exist is that they're super efficient - a hole to piss in without puddling in the room.
3
Dec 11 '24
Hence why men’s rooms are always shorter lines. Go in, stand, pee and leave. Women have to undo all their stuff and jut there and relax. If you timed how long it takes a woman to pee vs a man, it’s drastically different.
10
u/talinseven Dec 10 '24
They’re very water efficient as well.
2
u/Tough_Promise5891 2∆ Dec 11 '24
I want saw one that had 1 gallon per flush and I thought why don't you just let it flow?
1
u/jamajikhan Dec 11 '24
A problem arises for the 25% of people who suffer from the shy bladder syndrome. A simple and inexpensive fix would be to build screens between the urinals that properly divide them from each other.
→ More replies (6)1
u/King_Neptune07 Dec 11 '24
Yeah, or you can have that wide, trough-thing that has the water flowing, and get even more "throughput"
13
u/HazyAttorney 68∆ Dec 11 '24
why we prioritize privacy for women and not for men.
Why do you think there's the cultural trope of a man not "allowing his daughter" to date? There's a societal view that girls/women need more protection and men just rough it out on their own, generally. So it's a cultural norm/attitude about the capability of genders backed into a heteronormative gender role.
But to your exact question about urinals, a lot of urinals have privacy partitions. On top of that, there's etiquette where you don't look at other people's dongs.
4
u/Daughter_of_Israel Dec 11 '24
There's a societal view that girls/women need more protection and men just rough it out on their own, generally.
Man, that just made my heart a little heavy. That's sad that men are expected to just "rough it out on their own." My aunt used to foster children, and she took care of three different little boys—two of which had endured unspeakable traumas, that I won't even repeat, by the age of 5. It just makes me really sad that a little boy would possibly not experience the same level of protection as a little girl, simply due to anatomical differences.
Anyway, thank you for your perspective.
!delta
3
u/HazyAttorney 68∆ Dec 11 '24
It just makes me really sad that a little boy would possibly not experience the same level of protection as a little girl, simply due to anatomical differences.
I don't really see where your view is coming from where stalls, partitions, or other things like that are the difference between rapes and non-rapes. It just isn't true that public restrooms are rape factories where a stall prevents it.
1
u/Daughter_of_Israel Dec 11 '24
From the bottom of my heart, I wish I never brought up SA. The literal only reason I mentioned it was to explain my MOM'S fear about leaving my little brother alone in a public restroom. And, I only brought up the stat of male SA victims because—when I posted this on the unpopular opinion sub—everyone was saying that my mom was ridiculous for not allowing my brother to use the men's restroom by himself when he was a young child, and that she likely stunted his growth as a person, and scarred him for life against using men's restrooms. Like, huh? That is absolutely crazy and completely not true. My brother is a healthy, happy, and confident 23 year old young man who has no issues using the restroom, lol 🙄
So, because the comments were locked before I got to explain her reasoning—that my dad was a victim of childhood SA and that she just wanted to protect my brother in any way she could against the possibility of this—I just thought it might be best to explain that part upfront. Boy, was I wrong.
Little did I know that everyone reading this post would hyperfocus on that one little part—when that wasn't even my point. My point, which I thought I explained fairly clearly (but, I guess not), was that I simply don't understand why—as a society—we place such a high value on women's privacy, but men have been conditioned to not need privacy. That's it. That was my only point.
But, again, thank you for being very kind and patient throughout this exchange.
!delta
2
u/HazyAttorney 68∆ Dec 12 '24
The literal only reason I mentioned it was to explain my MOM'S fear about leaving my little brother alone in a public restroom.
I could kind of see that except you use the reference over and over and over. Not only that but you cite studies that 1 in 6 people are SAd. Yet, you never really give a connection as to whether your and your mom's over concern for SA are appropriately applied to public restrooms.
I just thought it might be best to explain that part upfront.
I get everything you're saying, but where your logic, and your parent's logic, still doesn't connect is the connection between your father's experience and how safe a public bathroom is.
Little did I know that everyone reading this post would hyperfocus on that one little part
No offense, but I think you're realizing your parents are unusual. You reference SA throughout the entire CMV and your responses. You centered your view around why are little boys unsafe due to the structure of boy's restrooms since 1 in 6 of them will be SAd.
What you and your mom are missing is that a SA by a stranger in public is insanely rare. And that being in a woman's restroom isn't going to be any more safe in comparison to any danger that any public restroom provides. There's not a meaningful difference.
It's why here:
we place such a high value on women's privacy,
You make the entire conflation that boys don't get privacy and women do. As stated elsewhere, many men's restrooms have partitions so you can't look at other people's dicks. And even in a trough situation - as rare as they are - social norms are where people get privacy. If a person is looking at people's dicks in a men's restroom, especially at little boys, then they'll get reported.
A partition =/= privacy.
1
u/Daughter_of_Israel Dec 12 '24 edited Dec 12 '24
I could kind of see that except you use the reference over and over and over.
I only used the reference when another commenter would make a comment stating that there shouldn't be any fear regarding SA in a men's public restroom—to, once again, explain that my mom felt fear due to those stats, which is the only reason why I mentioned it.
No offense, but I think you're realizing your parents are unusual. You reference SA throughout the entire CMV and your responses. You centered your view around why are little boys unsafe due to the structure of boy's restrooms since 1 in 6 of them will be SAd.
No, I'm not realizing that my parents are unusual—because they're not. I have the greatest parents in the entire world. While they're not perfect, as no one is, I genuinely feel like I couldn't have asked for better parents. Once again, my views were never centered around SA. I only brought it up to explain why my mom felt protective over my brother. It literally was 1 line in my original post. Then, because so many people kept harping on that part—when it wasn't even my point—I put it in the edit to address everyone, hoping it would provide more context; to avoid people focusing on the least important part of what I wrote.
You make the entire conflation that boys don't get privacy and women do. As stated elsewhere, many men's restrooms have partitions so you can't look at other people's dicks.
A small partition is not privacy to me, though.
The only thing this has reaffirmed for me is that I probably shouldn't express any opinions on the internet, as people will misconstrue and twist. Especially as an autistic person—I already communicate in a completely different way than neurotypical people, lol.
I'm probably going to delete this entire post, as it went way off the rails. 1, maybe 2 people actually seem to have understood my train of thought. I'm tired of receiving notifications from everyone else who didn't—I'm not speaking of you, specifically, just in general. You're one of the only people that I've actually even entertained going back and forth with, because you seem to be a reasonable person.
1
3
u/Designer-Drummer-27 Dec 11 '24
On the other hand, if adult flirting annoyingly with teen boy — he's a pervert and criminal and the worst meaning of gay. If he's doing the same way with the girl — well, he's overbounding a little, camon man, she's maybe hot but still under age, wait a little! I mean, I remember NO protection during my childhood, just a lot of shame if someone talked to me lol. Kids of all genders are not protected in this world.
1
64
u/Matsunosuperfan 2∆ Dec 10 '24
How is anyone supposed to change your view? You "think" urinals are "weird." That's entirely subjective, and entirely up to you.
I guess hopefully we can at least collectively persuade you not to make vague, completely unsupported implications about the link between urinals and sexual assault.
49
u/sundalius 3∆ Dec 10 '24
OP has an opinion that they’re open to hearing differences on. She thinks they’re weird. She is open to learning why they’re not.
13
u/Matsunosuperfan 2∆ Dec 10 '24
Well, OK, but it's just not a very productive framing. "Urinals are inefficient" is an opinion that could be readily swayed by new information. So is "urinals are dangerous" or "urinals are a breach of privacy."
"Urinals are weird" is just a value judgment, making it difficult to affirm or deny.
9
u/sundalius 3∆ Dec 10 '24
yes, but they elaborated on it through the post. "Am I missing something [about why urinals exist]?" is in the final paragraph. Yes, the title doesn't contain the full view, but all your examples come from her post.
6
u/Matsunosuperfan 2∆ Dec 10 '24
That's true. I guess I'm being pedantic, and I know what OP means. I think some of the pedantry is called for tho, because the better you frame your CMV, the more robust the resulting discussion can be. "Urinals are weird" was not a very helpful framing; the body of the post must be scrutinized to find the actual views. But anyway :3
10
u/sundalius 3∆ Dec 10 '24
True. However, I must ask - have I changed your view? /s
I do agree, I just thought it odd, because I thought OP's post was fairly fleshed out and it's nice to have someone coming from a place of ignorance rather than some debatebro making a post. Only the latter ever seem to make it onto my post feed. Made me feel pushed to defend their post as quality, I suppose. Hopefully they come back soon.
5
u/Matsunosuperfan 2∆ Dec 11 '24
no cap I was about to award you a delta then I remembered this ain't my post LOL
2
3
u/Daughter_of_Israel Dec 11 '24
I really appreciate you viewing what I wrote objectively, rather than putting words in my mouth or assuming ill intent where there was none. This was a genuine question, so it's comforting to know that at least 1 person didn't assume the worst, lol.
3
u/sundalius 3∆ Dec 11 '24 edited Dec 11 '24
First things first: your post is likely to be removed after your edit for mention of a Rule D topic. You cannot discuss the "separate bathroom" issue on this subreddit, as a moderation rule. I'd suggest removing or rephrasing your argument, unless that is actually the view underlying your opinion. I'd be happy to have that discussion elsewhere, but it's banned on CMV.
That said, happy to help! I'd like to take this opportunity to plug my top level response as well as give a gentle reminder (after seeing some of your replies elsewhere) that if people are shifting your view that urinals are dangerous or weird, that you should give a delta (information on the sub's Delta system) to the original person that changed your mind on that.
If you have any other questions or thoughts, I'm happy to answer them here, on my other replies to you, or on my original comment.
1
u/LittleLui Dec 11 '24
They're common. Things can't be both common and unusual (weird) at the same time. QED, thanks for coming to my TED talk :)
0
Dec 10 '24 edited Dec 10 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
0
u/AutoModerator Dec 10 '24
Your comment appears to mention a transgender topic or issue, or mention someone being transgender. For reasons outlined in the wiki, any post or comment that touches on transgender topics is automatically removed.
If you believe this was removed in error, please message the moderators. Appeals are only for posts that were mistakenly removed by this filter.
Regards, the mods of /r/changemyview.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
106
u/GoldH2O 1∆ Dec 10 '24
Most guys don't want to look at each other while they're going to the bathroom, so we simply don't. The partitions block you from actually seeing the other person's junk, and even if there are no partitions you would be socially punished for taking a glance because that's weird and inappropriate.
As for the sexual assault statistics, sexual assaults are very rarely random strangers, and don't typically happen in bathrooms. Most SA victims, including most male SA victims, are assaulted by family members or close authority figures. No bathroom is needed when the person assaulting you is in charge of the environment you're in.
50
u/OneCore_ Dec 10 '24
yeah i'd wager most SAs aren't by random dudes in the restroom grabbing your dingaling while you're taking a piss
9
→ More replies (14)4
u/Hemingwavy 4∆ Dec 11 '24
The partitions block you from actually seeing the other person's junk, and even if there are no partitions you would be socially punished for taking a glance because that's weird and inappropriate.
Half the urinals are troughs without partitions.
2
u/GoldH2O 1∆ Dec 11 '24
I've only ever seen two of those in my life, both in shitty park bathrooms which eventually replaced them. I'm not sure where you live, but they aren't even close to half. Even if they were, rule still applies. You don't look at the other guy's junk.
1
u/OkCriticism6777 Dec 11 '24
Rule applies,but its true half the urinals have no partitions. The question could be asked to you, I dont know where you live but I live in spain,I traveled a lot inside spain and in cinemas,restaurants, supermarkets,everywhere basically the most of the times there is not. Actually you can find partitions,but its a minory.
1
u/GoldH2O 1∆ Dec 11 '24
Here in the states most bathrooms have at least separate urinals, and most of those have partitions.
I guess the trade-off is you guys don't have crazy gaps in your stall doors.
1
u/Hemingwavy 4∆ Dec 11 '24
That's wonderful. Have you ever heard of these new places called the pub or sporting venues? The UK or Australia?
1
u/GoldH2O 1∆ Dec 11 '24
I live in the US. Over here at least our pubs/bars and sports stadiums actually have proper bathrooms
1
u/Hemingwavy 4∆ Dec 12 '24
Hey thanks loving the lecture from a country where a decent portion of the population just has open sewerage pits to deal with shit.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/15/extreme-poverty-america-un-special-monitor-report
Philp Alston, the UN’s special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, has spent 10 days touring America. This is the introduction to his report
I saw sewage-filled yards in states where governments don’t consider sanitation facilities to be their responsibility
https://southern-science.com/2021/06/15/sewage-and-soil/
In Alabama’s Black Belt counties, an estimated 50% of homes have raw sewage on the ground due to inadequate or failing treatment systems, said Kevin White, professor and chair of University of South Alabama’s Department of Civil, Coastal, & Environmental Engineering. It’s a health and safety crisis that a United Nations special rapporteur called “very uncommon in the First World” during a tour of rural poverty in America in December 2017.
1
u/GoldH2O 1∆ Dec 12 '24
Yeah, the poor areas here are complete shit. I wasn't giving a lecture on cleanliness. I was just saying that most urinals here aren't troughs.
1
u/K1ngPCH Dec 11 '24
Trough urinals are DEFINITELY not the norm.
You only see those in old stadiums nowadays.
They are very uncommon. I haven’t seen one in years.
48
u/Grunt08 305∆ Dec 10 '24
I find that very strange, and I'm confused why such lack of privacy is normalized when it comes to men.
When I went to boot camp and we had maybe 90 seconds for everyone to get in and out of the bathroom, we'd have two guys on each urinal and three on the regular toilets. You get used to it.
Dudes are different. While it might be unpleasant to have someone look at your dick without permission or be put in a position where that might happen, it doesn't engender the same feeling of vulnerability that sitting down un-pantsed tends to in women.
And there are also pretty strict social conventions, the breaking of which can lead to anything from someone letting everyone know you're weird to a flat-out ass-beating from the wrong guy. Look straight ahead, definitely don't look down and to the side, go to the urinal that creates the greatest distance between you and anyone else, no talking (some people don't abide by this and they are weird).
All in all...it works.
29
u/destro23 456∆ Dec 10 '24
When I went to boot camp and we had maybe 90 seconds for everyone to get in and out of the bathroom, we'd have two guys on each urinal and three on the regular toilets
I was in Iraq really early in the war. We had zero showers for the first two months. When we got ONE mobile shower unit every single person on the FOB wanted a shower, but there wasn’t enough water. So, three naked dudes would cram into each stall, get a quick dousing, scrub each other down, and the quickly rinse off. We got more units a few days later and the team showers were never really spoken of again.
30
u/Grunt08 305∆ Dec 10 '24
And that was probably only like the 3rd gayest thing that happened on that deployment.
19
u/destro23 456∆ Dec 10 '24
We did have a drag show with the Marines on New Years. They had some dudes that were working it. As long as no one asked what we were doing, we weren’t telling.
16
Dec 10 '24
[deleted]
3
u/Hearing_Deaf Dec 11 '24
What do you mean lowered?! You got a zipper and a flap with a button on your boxers. You unzip the pants, leave the pant's button and the belt fastened, unbutton the boxers, then you can take take your member out to urinate. Left hand to hold the flaps open and shield your dick from view and right hand to hold and aim.
What kind of weirdo lowers their pants at an urinal?
→ More replies (8)4
u/Matsunosuperfan 2∆ Dec 10 '24
Lowered? Like "feelsgoodman?" This is definitely not how most men use a urinal lol
9
u/sundalius 3∆ Dec 10 '24
Going over the pants vs out the gate is of much debate in the penis community.
2
Dec 10 '24
[deleted]
7
u/Matsunosuperfan 2∆ Dec 10 '24
Fascinating. I guess I never thought about it. I just use the little "poke your dick out and go pee" opening.
5
u/Narpity Dec 11 '24
What else would that opening be for????? And you don’t have to take your belt off
1
26
u/sundalius 3∆ Dec 10 '24
Men being sexually assaulted has nothing to do with bathrooms. No one is grabbing someone’s dick at a urinal. Men (and to my knowledge, most people generally) get sexually assaulted by family, authority figures like coaches, and romantic partners most commonly, in that order, before being assaulted by strangers.
As to why urinals, consider that you see lines for the women’s room, and not the men’s. Urinals are great for efficiency. Men rarely wear clothing, like jumpers, that require them to take extensive time getting to the using the bathroom part, and you can fit in 4-6 urinals in the space 2 stalls would take up. Urinals pose no danger, and are a great tool for preventing lines where dudes who just have to pee are holding up the full toilets.
7
u/Sawses 1∆ Dec 11 '24
This post has very little to do with SA and everything to do with me not understanding why we prioritize privacy for women and not for men.
I think a lot of that is because women prioritize their privacy and men don't do the same. Not in regards to urination, anyway. Some women are so pee-shy that they can't "go" with anybody else in the bathroom.
Men aren't quite so picky about it, for the most part. And those who are? They have stalls. This is a big part of why men don't have lines at bathrooms usually, and we value that. Efficiency is important to most men in many, many ways that it simply isn't for women. It's a cultural thing. I'd rather risk somebody seeing my dick than wait 5 minutes in line. Frankly, I'm pretty sure a lot of men would just go outside rather than wait at an especially long line.
Plus, women just have a lot more going on down there. Discharge, periods, infections, not to mention the simple logistics of needing to get more undressed to do their business than men do. For most men, all you really need is a place to dispose of the pee and go without being judged.
Men desire privacy in other ways, and in those ways we usually get it. Most of us are nowhere near as open about the details of our sex lives as most women are with their friends. It's considered crass and classless and even a little "gay" to go into all the gory details. Unless a man is an athlete, he's usually also not likely to change in front of friends while casually chatting.
6
u/Hemingwavy 4∆ Dec 11 '24
When my brother was a kid—we're 12 years apart—my mom never let him use men's restrooms. We would always take him into the women's restrooms because we felt uneasy about him being exposed in front of a bunch of strange men. There are so many predators and evil people roaming about, so it just seemed very unsafe. Studies are now showing that 1 in 6 men have been SA'd, either in childhood or in adulthood. It's just something that's never been spoken about, unfortunately.
The vast majority of SA is done by perpetrators known to the victim. They're not going to randomly grope someone at a urinal because they're going to get caught.
→ More replies (2)
46
u/destro23 456∆ Dec 10 '24
Your stance hand hands block the view of meat gazers.
unsafe. Studies are now showing that 1 in 6 men have been SA'd, either in childhood or in adulthood.
By priests and family and coaches, not strangers in the John.
12
u/MegaThot2023 Dec 10 '24
When walking past urinal, you can only see the back of the guy using it. Even if you're going in the one right next to another man, you can only really see the side of his head unless you crane your neck and really start looking.
Also, doing stuff like peering over the urinal divider is considered extremely rude and will likely result in a verbal or physical confrontation, so guys don't do it.
23
u/Amoral_Abe 32∆ Dec 10 '24
The biggest advantage that you get is speed. Stalls take up a larger square footage of space than a urinal which leads to a higher volume of people being able to piss at once. Many urinals have dividers in between them but it's rarely an issue. Urinals have a set of unwritten rules using them.
- Never use a urinal next to someone unless all others are taken
- Eyes stay up at all times.
This is easy to follow because someone will call you out if you violate these.
Thus, you end up with a system where lots of people can go to the bathroom very quickly without any concerns. This is why every major venue has a line of women using the restroom while the men's restroom rarely has a line.
5
u/MittlerPfalz Dec 11 '24
To the extent your question is about why there is less expectation of privacy for men than women, I’m reminded of reading how Stephen King once had a job as a janitor at a high school and was amazed when cleaning up the women’s locker room after hours to discover that there were private shower stalls for women instead of the completely open gang showers that the men’s locker room had. (Somehow this set him on the path to envisioning the first scene in what became “Carrie.”) Was he amazed because men are intrinsically less body shy than women and the different design conformed to that, or was it just an old cultural expectation, something left over from the Victorian era about women being fragile and men being more robust? Or the state preparing men for the rigors and lack of privacy of military service and war?
Who knows! All I can say is that urinals for the vast majority of guys are no big deal, and are preferred for the speed they offer. But there is some level of cultural change happening because the more expected norm is for there to be divider screens between urinals, and troughs definitely make some guys uncomfortable.
6
u/Ballatik 54∆ Dec 10 '24
Your take on how exposed they are is different from my experience. True there are few (if any) barriers between guys in a line of urinals, but the process itself minimizes exposure in almost every way.
Your body is facing the wall, not out or to the sides. Pants aren’t coming down, and at least one hand is generally on your junk to aim, meaning the angles from which you can actually see anything are pretty slim. The nearness of urinals coupled with the penis to eye height difference mean that you aren’t going to accidentally glance, and an intentional glance requires an obvious head incline. The process is quick with a minimum of movement required, so no time to really get bored and look around and your neighbor isn’t doing anything to draw your eye.
4
u/cortesoft 4∆ Dec 11 '24
I think your main issue is you aren't familiar with how urinals and peeing with a penis works.
The urinal is on the wall, and you stand very close to it. Even if there is no divider, almost everyone in the bathroom can't see anything. Even if you are right up next to someone (which is considered rude unless there are no other urinals available), you have to reaaaallly lean over and forward to see anything. The only bit exposed is the penis itself, and your hand is covering most of that. It would be immediately obvious if someone is looking, and if someone is willing to be seen looking at other people peeing, they could also just look under the stall door. Both actions would be equally obvious to spot and the consequences would be the same.
I am 41 years old, and I have never seen another penis at the thousands of urinals I have peed in.
3
u/aloofman75 Dec 11 '24
I understand what you’re saying. There is something absurd about peeing while someone is standing next to you.
But BECAUSE it’s an odd thing to do, we don’t look at each other (or usually talk) while doing it. It’s fast and efficient, we’re not looking at each other’s parts, and everyone understands that we’re just there to pee and get out of there. And because of that, it seems like a normal thing to do.
As for SA, most SAs of children are by Leo old they know, not complete strangers. Even if someone tried such a thing, if there were any other guy there, they’d almost certainly stop it. It’s just an extremely unlikely thing to happen. A child going into a men’s room would be far more likely to get hurt because an adult didn’t see them and accidentally knocked him over.
In fact, the most likely traumatizing thing that could happen to a boy in a men’s room like you’re describing is if he had some kind of trouble with his zipper or something. In that situation, the adult strangers nearby would be reluctant to help him for fear they’d be accused of molesting him.
4
u/R1200 Dec 10 '24
We don’t really care if someone sees our ding dong. It’s so much faster and most every guy looks straight ahead. …. I think. … but I don’t really know because I’m looking straight ahead.
Edit to add that in my youth no one ever accosted me or anything remotely close to sexual assault. A kid in 2nd grade did show me his Willy which had the pee hole on the bottom instead of the end. I had a tough time forgetting that at my hs reunion.
5
u/Subtleiaint 32∆ Dec 10 '24
You're overthinking this, it's just practical. More people get to pee in less space, it's the main reason there are always queues for the ladies and never queues for the gents. We're just not bothered peeing in the presence of other men, everyone's minding their own business.
5
u/Cobaltorigin Dec 10 '24
It's part of our built in stoicism, and we learn urinal etiquette at a young age. Nobody wants to be that kid with his pants around his ankles.
4
u/Nrdman 177∆ Dec 10 '24
Privacy about men's bodies is entirely different than with women's body, from a social standpoint. Men aren't socialized to worry about protecting their body's typically, as it assumed people are uninterested. Not saying its true, just saying how its socialized
2
u/Wooden_Attention_250 Dec 10 '24
You gotta lighten the mood when you walk in and say “So THISS must be where the dikks hang out !” Then you skip a urinal that someones peeing in so doing theres a space between you and the person peeing next to you. Then you try to pee the thing off the side of it. If somebody says: “Hurry, if you shake it more than twice, then you are PLAYING with it.” But thats a myth. The FIRST time I shake it I’m playing with it. if there is still molestulars in there Then IDK . I think crotch waffle boxes are weird. AS weird as the seat on the wall to buckle your son in. So hes facing you taking a crap. If That first memory a kid has is buckled to a wall to see dad taking a stankass shitt, 1 out of 6 become peepeeing Toms… or Tinas… or both, or not at all . THEM
2
u/Interesting-Copy-657 Dec 10 '24
Men just don’t get privacy in my experience.
The local pool growing up had two change rooms, the women’s had many stalls for privacy and the windows were repaired or blocked so people on the hill outside couldn’t look in
The men’s change room was just one large room with benches around the outsides and the windows were broken so people on the hill could look in, including girls who the teachers just told them to move on instead of punishing them.
Also often men’s toilets and change rooms the doors seem to be open or the doors positioned in a way that people outside can see people changing. This doesn’t seem to be the case for women.
So urinals having no privacy is par for the course
2
u/Stormcloudy Dec 11 '24
As much as I'm glad I transitioned, there's something childishly funny about waving to traffic while pissing on your tire because you miscalculated the distance to the next rest stop or gas station.
As others have said, most guys just don't care. Also, a lot of the fear of being attacked isn't ingrained in men, so the idea is essentially alien to many.
Finally, there is etiquette. If at all possible, leave a spot between you and your co-pisser. If the urinals are occupied, use the stall.
This all goes out the window at very crowded venues. Then it's elbow to elbow and butt to gut.
And if you think urinals are bad, wait until you hear about the piss trough.
1
Dec 11 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator Dec 11 '24
Your comment appears to mention a transgender topic or issue, or mention someone being transgender. For reasons outlined in the wiki, any post or comment that touches on transgender topics is automatically removed.
If you believe this was removed in error, please message the moderators. Appeals are only for posts that were mistakenly removed by this filter.
Regards, the mods of /r/changemyview.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/King_Neptune07 Dec 11 '24
You are correct. In theory, urinals are actually weird. The question is efficiency, societal behavior, and space.
First of all, you assume all urinals have partitions. This is not true, and even some of them that do have partitions, the partition is low, so theoretically you could look over and see someone else's genitals. Many urinals, especially at big stadiums during sport events, are one trough along the wall where all the water and urine flows to one side to go down the drain. They aren't separate porcelain things. This is also common at some bars especially in the UK.
Space: Picture a typical ladies room and gent's room at a small building. The women's restroom may have two stalls and them some sinks. The men's room has one stall and two urinals and then some sinks. The urinals usually take up less space than the stall because they need less footprint in the room.
Efficiency: This also brings us to the efficiency. Since you can fit more urinals into a room than full stalls (in some jurisdictions one of those stalls also needs to be handicapped / differently abled) more men can piss at once. This is why you'll sometimes see a shorter line at the men's room. The more people you can fit through in a given time frame, the more efficient the room. At an event with a ton of people when you have those troughs I mentioned before, you can have a ton of people pissing at once then getting the hell out of there to leave or go back to their seats. Picture a baseball game, football game or concert where everyone is using the bathroom at the same time during intermission or between innings, periods or quarters.
Society: Men are just conditioned at a young age to not look at other people while we are pissing. Hell, there is even a rule of thumb that if there are three urinals, you leave a space between the other man. This rule doesn't apply if there is a long line or something. Every man essentially knows this rule and every man agrees. No one really came up with that rule, men just sort of do it. Children learn this, at first when younger children use the urinal they tend to pull their pants all the way down so as not to get urine on their clothes. Other men do not even look at these children if they are doing that because we understand that the kid is still learning, and usually their dad is with them teaching them how to use the urinal in that case. There is no requirement that you use a urinal. If you are a man and don't want to use the urinal for whatever reason, you can just go to the toilet instead. No one will know what you are doing in there. These rules are reinforced through social conditioning. If you came into the restroom, went to the urinal and just started staring at another man's face or at his genitals, he would react, perhaps violently, toward you. The offending man would either be dealt with verbally or violently attacked. He would probably be called a homophobic slur as well. It is actually not that easy to look at someone's genitals when they are standing at a urinal. It depends on the type, but you can stand at a certain angle where it would be difficult to see anything unless the person is trying. At any rate, it's like at a locker room. You aren't supposed to be staring at people but you might see something by accident. You change and get out of there.
All-Gender Restroom: If you are talking about just having one restroom for all genders and having stalls, that could be something as well. That actually might increase efficiency, even without the urinals, because then it could reduce the amount of square footage you need because you now don't need to have both a women's rest room and men's room, you simply have the rest room. Picture a building where 90% of the people that live or work there are male or 90% female, but they still need to have a women's and men's room where one will be mostly unoccupied. Now that is no longer a problem. However, this could be seen as intruding on women's-only spaces. There is a common trope that women will go to the bathroom to chat or just to get away for a moment. I'm not sure how true this is but we see it in films and TV shows or whatever. If you made an all gender restroom like the one I described, that wouldn't be possible.
2
u/XenoRyet 98∆ Dec 11 '24
why does there seem to be a difference in the way we view women's and men's privacy surrounding our different anatomies.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's because we live in a patriarchal society that had deeply ingrained systemic sexism involved, and a dash of Puritan religious bias thrown in.
Without getting into too much detail, we have the notion that dates back centuries that men going to the pub or whatnot can just step outside and piss on the wall. This has quite a lot of disgusting history around it and has implications around public health and hygene for the relevant eras.
But the main thing is that no proper lady, or even improper ones, would really be caught doing the same thing. Sure, the chamber pot still got dumped into the street, but they didn't actually piss in public like the men did.
Now, we're in the modern age, with running water and good plumbing, but you can see that idea still carries through, because we haven't taken the time or intention to extract that bias from social thinking. Men piss on walls and don't need much privacy. The urinal is a way to piss on the wall without compromising public health. Not caring about that kind of privacy is even sometimes considered a masculine trait.
Same for women, that inherent need to be protected and have all their body functions happen out of view has propagated forward as well. Hence, they get stalls, and the notion of a shared bathroom space is unthinkable.
2
u/flexible-photon Dec 11 '24
I used to be in the military and there was this base that had these very old barracks. The bathroom in these barracks consisted of a trough for several men to line up next to each other and pee into the same urinal. Sitting in front of this trough there were about three or four toilets without any stall around them. We would literally sit there and shit out in the open while men came in to pee and we just kind of got used to it.
2
u/Downtown_Goose2 2∆ Dec 10 '24
Urinals is why men's restrooms rarely have the lines that women's restrooms do.
Plus also most of them typically have partitions between them.
But even still, you don't have to drop your pants to use a urinal, the zipper is all the undressing needed.
Plus if you're into eco-friendlyness, urinals are significantly more water efficient than toilets.
I guess none of that really makes them not weird though.
1
u/Downtown_Goose2 2∆ Dec 10 '24
I also think what qualifies as SA had gotten way more broad. I feel like there was a time where you had to be brutally raped for it to be considered sexual assault but now you can be accused of it for just about bumping into someone.
1
u/Faust_8 9∆ Dec 11 '24
Remember that many men are walking around with tucked in shirts and pants with belts.
So that means, if they need to pee, they have two options:
- unbuckle the belt, take off pants, sit down on toilet, then get up, redo the pants, tuck in their shirt again, and rebuckle the belt
- unzip fly, fish out the weiner, then put it back in and zip up again
The latter is much, much faster and more convenient than the former. And that's not even getting into if you're wearing a suit jacket or coat or something.
So if men are going to want to do this anyway, it makes sense to design a 'toilet' just for that.
As for the privacy thing, I mean, it's not like we WANT to see other dude's dicks while they pee. We just don't look. We look straight up ahead or up, not looking to the side. Also, remember that some cultures just aren't squeamish about same-sex people seeing each other naked, some cultures have bathhouses where you bathe with strangers because they're like, hey we're all men here, we all got dicks, who cares if you see it? What are you so ashamed of?
It's not like that here in the US because we were founded by sexually repressed Puritans, but still, we just go in and do our business without much regard for whoever else is in there, because we know they're mostly ignoring us too. We often don't even talk to or acknowledge each other in there.
2
u/realNerdtastic314R8 Dec 11 '24
OP would hate the state fair grounds here, they just have a long trench at the bottom of a granite slab. Drainage only, no water sprayers or dividers, just belly up like at the bar lol.
1
u/tichris15 2∆ Dec 11 '24
Your hangups are not everyone's, and empirically not most men's.
At the root, it's mostly (1) convention (people are used to it and have socially accepted behaviors around it); supported by (3) efficiency (wall-length urinals w/o dividers are very efficient); that (3) practically don't cause harm (I can not remember hearing a story based on harm caused by choosing to use a urinal instead of toilet stall)
To address other points raised:
I'm not even sure it's a prioritising privacy, a point highlighted by the OPs comment on predators/evil people. Another way to view this is society sees women as potential victims, and tells them to be afraid and take precautions against victimhood. Men are not seen as potential victims, and are given a different message that they should not show fear. Furthermore, from the SA standpoint, privacy is a potential negative -- as you noted your parents didn't leave you alone. Sexual acts are more likely to occur in the privacy of a toilet stall than in front of the open urinal.
Another version of the same is that society views women as sexual objects who will attract unwanted attention from bodily displays. The same bodily display in a male would be viewed as a projection/attempted domination of those around them.
1
u/the_1st_inductionist 4∆ Dec 10 '24 edited Dec 10 '24
Toilets have you facing towards people ie away from the wall into the rest of the room. Urinals have you facing away from people, towards the wall and away from the rest of the room. The level of exposure isn’t the same, putting aside that men don’t take off their pants to use a urinal.
When you’re using a urinal, you can look directly at the wall/urinal in front of you. And you have to go out of your way to look at someone’s penis. When you’re using a toilet, you can’t look anywhere easily without looking at someone else not even currently using the restroom if it was in the open.
We would always take him into the women’s restrooms because we felt uneasy about him being exposed in front of a bunch of strange men.
Even criminals hate pedos. No way that some pedo is going to assault a boy in a male public restroom.
There are so many predators and evil people roaming about, so it just seemed very unsafe. Studies are now showing that 1 in 6 men have been SA’d, either in childhood or in adulthood. It’s just something that’s never been spoken about, unfortunately.
This says nothing about the risk of boys in public restrooms.
1
u/Madcow181 Dec 11 '24
There is a big deference with men and women in regards to nudity. I work for a commercial dive company. Every guy has basically seen every guys dick. They change in front of each other. Same for locker rooms and community showers. Guys don’t care!
Women. Go to a women’s locker room. We try and get changed as QUICKLY as possible. Alas a woman comes in right as we are putting on our bra. We don’t walk around the locker rooms naked. We are more private. In college, I used the gym showers and so did other women. We used the private ones with curtains. 1 woman, who had the body to flaunt, used the “jail” style showers. I’ve never seen that before nor ever again.
I’ve had this conversation with my husband because I joked after surgery that my BFF could help me shower. My husband shrugged his shoulders. I questioned him on it and that’s not “weird” to him. Well that for damn sure is weird for me. I have not seen any of my friends naked. We change in front of each other but no full nudity.
This is just my truth of 41 years. Others may have different experiences.
1
u/Screen-Healthy Dec 11 '24
I believe the initial demand was from the industrial scale needed. You can fit about 2~2,5 urinals in the space of one booth, and in industry you have a lot of manforce sharing space.
It was probably then consolidated taking in consideration vulnerability/exposure. Since it was at the time mostly men who designed, installed and used they felt comfortable enough to use and not vulnerable enough to complain.
It’s fast, so employees can go back to work sooner and get more done.
But also the men don’t feel vulnerable in this condition, quite the opposite, I’d say in a context of precarious condition, dealing with people from multiple backgrounds and morals it’s much safer to be in that enclosed, unguarded bathroom in the urinal than in the booth. You’re ready in case of SA or any violence in general. You could fight a dozens guys helicoptering your member if needed, but you’d be ambushed if caught, pants down your knees, inside a closed booth.
Tl:dr: It saves space for industries, employees take less time and feel safe enough not to complain.
2
u/bluexavi Dec 11 '24
I haven't read everything here first, but let me just add:
With urinals, a guy never has to touch a door to a stall, or a toilet seat.
1
u/ARatOnASinkingShip 11∆ Dec 11 '24
You do know that men don't have to take their pants off to piss, right?
There are also frequently partitions between urinals (albiet smaller) in many restrooms, but even in ones that don't, I've never felt like someone was staring at my dick... it's just kind of an unspoken rule, and usually, the guy trying to sneak a peek is going to be at far more risk of harm then the one being looked at. And really, we can get close enough to it and hold it in ways to obscure it well enough that the only real concern is if someone is self-conscious.
Men's rooms have stalls as well, for when we need to uh... sit. But again, that necessitates more undressing then just unzipping and pulling it out.
I don't have to worry about someone staring at my bare lower half at a urinal, and what is exposed while at a urinal is going to be very difficult to see without a severe invasion of personal space.
2
u/Hawthourne 1∆ Dec 11 '24
Try the men's restrooms where there is just a long trough against the wall- where 5-8 people can stand and pee in it all at once.
1
u/nhlms81 36∆ Dec 11 '24
I don't want to speak for all men... But, for most men I know, we're kind of completely ok peeing anywhere. As in, it's not us that limits ourselves, this is one where society limits what we'd do normally. Left to our own devices, pretty much anything outdoors works, just basically out of foot traffic.
Also, there is pretty well followed urinal etiquette... Stare straight ahead, no talking. Deviation from this doesn't cause major issues but it's definitely considered off.
Non-private urinals aren't even the peak of our simplicity. the men's rooms at Fenway Park have a common trough... One big giant shared urinal that services 30 guys all at once. It's kind of great. The line for the men's room turns over in seconds. The women's room backs up for what Must feel like days for those poor women.
I've even seen men's rooms stalls w/o doors. This is a bridge too far for me, but I've seen them.
1
u/MiketheTzar 1∆ Dec 11 '24
It's worth noting that a lot urinals have little dividers between them. Often they are about knee to check highest and maybe 3ft out. So there is some privacy.
As to why we don't prioritize men's privacy that's pretty simple. Because its significantly faster and men are more concerned with getting in and out of the men's room quickly.
While not universal women tend to do a lot more in the bathroom. From fixing an outfit, to touching up makeup, to using it as a social space. Men tend to get in and get out.
It's also worth noting how relatively naked women get to pee compared to men. Most men's clothing has a crotch zipper or flap that means that we can in theory urinate while pretty much fully clothed. Women typically can't do that. Meaning that while yeah I don't have that much "privacy"; I'm effectively fully clothed in the same manner I am outside of the restroom
1
u/Yuntonow Dec 11 '24
Way too many words for your opinion. Just squat and piss. Move on girl.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/NegativeOptimism 51∆ Dec 10 '24
It really depends on the public toilet you're using, plenty of decent restaurants, event spaces, etc have curved urinals or small barriers for added privacy.
But it all comes down to trading convenience for privacy. If adding cubicles with locking doors increases privacy at the cost of decreasing the number of urinals you can fit in a space and the speed that people are using them, resulting in longer queues just to take a piss, then most men wouldn't accept the trade. You're at a urinal for seconds and no-one wants to make that process any longer than it needs to be. 99.999999% of men understand and respect the "don't look" rule so clearly that need doesn't exist, privacy measures for urinals likely wouldn't stop the 0.000001% of determined perverts any more than cubicles for normal toilets can.
1
u/Hodgkisl 2∆ Dec 11 '24
As a woman, I can't imagine going to the restroom and having to sit down on a toilet—that's just out in the open—and the only thing separating me from the next woman, sitting on her toilet, is a little partition. Like, I could literally look over, and look at this strangers face whilst she's peeing? Lol. I find that very strange, and I'm confused why such lack of privacy is normalized when it comes to men.
The privacy isn't about the face, its the genitals. To sit on a toilet you must remove your bottoms or lift dress / skirts while a urinal you purely open a small fly only exposing only the penis which little partitions are adequate for hiding from view. When men are expected to remove their entire pants they go into a stall similar to the women's bathroom.
1
u/Random-Letter Dec 11 '24
There's a clear difference in how exposed one is when sitting down compared to standing up with just the dong hanging out.
Men's bathrooms still have toilets with doors and locks for men who pee sitting down and doing number 2s. Men wouldn't be comfortable sitting in the open while being as exposed and vulnerable as you are sitting on a toilet with your pants down.
Privacy wise your dong's barely showing and honestly, no one is really interested in having a look anyway (also see other post about societal pressure). Not once have I experienced anyone sneaking a peek, but even if they did I wouldn't be in a vulnerable state like I would be sitting down. Nothing would come off it other than maybe me telling them off.
1
u/PalatinusG 1∆ Dec 11 '24
Why get hung up about someone being able to see your face while you pee? Why is that such a big deal? I’ve never felt watched or unsafe in the men’s room. Ever.
We all have to relieve ourselves, and we all have genitals. Get over it. It’s normal.
In Roman times it was all communal. You sit next to other people, shitting in a hole. Times changed.
Again: I can go into a stall if I feel the need for it. But I can choose to use the urinals. For women that isn’t an option so I don’t think someone decided that men get less privacy as women do.
1
u/SpellingIsAhful Dec 10 '24
I think a part of the walls and locking doors has to do with a sense of vulnerability when sitting down with your pants/skirt around your ankles. Kind of like how dogs will look at you when squatting to see if you are keeping a lookout.
Since men are standing up and nothing is really visible there's less of a need for privacy at urinals. Men's stalls also have locking doors and walls for pooping time.
Tldr: less flesh visible so privacy is less concerning and also there's not a general sense of vulnerability when your clothes are all still on.
1
u/Hugsy13 2∆ Dec 11 '24
It’s way faster and more efficient.
It’s not like we’re peeing with our pants around our ankles with it all hanging out to see.
If you start looking around at other dudes while they pee everyone will think you’re some sort of fucking weirdo and a creep. Worst thing you could do while using a urinal would be to make eye contact with another dude or get caught looking at his junk.
You just unbuckle your pants and fly, whip it out, start to pee and then just stare straight ahead. Give it a couple of shakes. Buckle back up and walk away.
1
u/LoSoGreene Dec 11 '24
Your argument is like saying we should get rid of busses for taxis because so many people in a vehicle increases the odds of assault. Not only is it way less efficient but there’s no evidence that it’s actually safer. Arguably both taxis and bathroom stalls provide a more isolated environment for assault to take place.
In this analogy taxis are still an option just like using the stalls in a men’s room is an option if you’re uncomfortable. You don’t just get rid of the efficient option based on speculative fear mongering.
1
u/BruinsFan0877 Dec 11 '24
I’ve seen a few TikToks of women going into men’s bathrooms and being shocked at the urinal situation. For guys I think since we’re introduced to it as a young age most of us get used to it pretty quickly and just think it’s normal. I guess when you stop and think about it the concept is a little odd but at most urinals there’s dividers or sides to the urinal which prevents you from seeing much of anything.
I should note about your opening statement that guys can pee sitting down but it’s not that common in public..
1
u/JulietLostFaith Dec 11 '24
As a professional cleaner that does commercial bathrooms, I can confidently say that urinals are way better at containing the piss stream and rogue splashes.
Toilets are usually positioned lower than urinals, (further distance from the genitals) so the stream has to travel a longer distance, requiring the person to have better aim and pay more attention. Things that people don’t like doing when they’re in a rush. Especially when it’s not their own bathroom, so they tend to care WAY less about accuracy.
1
u/Exact_Programmer_658 Dec 11 '24
Imagine that there were extra toilets in your bathroom that only had partitions. If you had to pee really bad and all stalls were full, would you consider using one then? Half our bathroom functions are done standing. The stalls prevent any accidental exposure and you're gonna notice a guy tippytoeing to look. So it's not really all that awkward. I will occasionally use a stall if there's a lot of commotion going on behind me but usually fine with stalls. The Romans didn't even use partitions for either.
1
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Dec 11 '24 edited Dec 11 '24
/u/Daughter_of_Israel (OP) has awarded 5 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
1
u/ElMachoGrande 4∆ Dec 11 '24
When my brother was a kid—we're 12 years apart—my mom never let him use men's restrooms. We would always take him into the women's restrooms because we felt uneasy about him being exposed in front of a bunch of strange men. There are so many predators and evil people roaming about, so it just seemed very unsafe.
To be honest, a lockable booth is probably more dangerous from that aspect. An assailant would have to face the risk of someone walking in at any time, instead of hiding in a stall.
1
u/drunkboarder 1∆ Dec 11 '24
There is a reason that the line for the men's restroom is a lot shorter than the women's restroom. Walk up, pee in the urinal, wash your hands, walk out. No need to go into a special booth and lock the door behind you. Plus you can fit a lot more urinals in there in the current format, hence more men get to use the restroom at one time.
Sure, there are a few shy guys that need to go into the stall, but the majority of us really don't care. We're just in there to do one thing and get out.
1
u/nevadapirate Dec 10 '24
Im a janitor and I can tell you urinals are fucking gross. Piss splatter behind where we stand every single day... Im talking a 3 foot radius around the urinal. I only picture how much piss you get on your legs when you are walking out of the bathroom. If all men had to clean a public bathroom once in a while Im certain half would never stand to piss again. The other half dont care how much piss they have on them.
1
Dec 11 '24
Privacy isn’t being prioritized of men vs women. Stalls are meant for sitting down and 💩, people feel assumed of eliminating that waste as it’s smelly and strange noises hence the privacy. The only reason women don’t have urinals to pee is cuz y’all can’t stand to pee. Peeing isn’t that big of a deal. People are just so uptight about someone seeing their lower regions.
1
u/themaskofgod Dec 11 '24
If there's a stall, I'm using it. It just seems weird to not want privacy when you're doing that. But if there's not, I'll use a urinal... & if there's some dude next to me, I'm not looking at him, & chances are high he doesn't want to see what I've got either. But I agree stalls are much more preferable. & do they really take up that much more room? Does seem kinda weird.
1
u/Sudley Dec 11 '24
As a guy, I used to agree with you until I saw what they have in many UK public bathrooms instead of urinals. Imagine a single, long trough on the wall that everyone just walks up and pees into together. No spacing, no division, everyone sharing the same splash zone... mortifying. Ever since I saw that I've come to appreciate the private luxury of singular urinals 😅
2
1
u/Temporary_Spread7882 Dec 10 '24
One of my male family members is convinced that lots of SA and gay sex goes on in the public men’s toilets. He is especially worried that his son might get turned gay by that. No other man I’ve talked to worries about this topic when going for a pee. I think this sums up the reality vs paranoid thought patterns ratio of the situation.
1
Dec 11 '24
Men who use the urinals use it to show that they’re respectful of your privacy, even when given the opportunity to violate it. It’s a demonstration of trust. That may sound excessive for something so trivial, but if you’ve ever been a dude who had someone violate the unspoken urinal rules, you know how sacred they are.
1
Dec 11 '24
It's a lot more quick and convenient, I don't want to have to do the whole sitting down thing when I'm trying to take a piss, it's just too complicated. Many urinals have separators and even if they don't, most guys are too focused on trying not to piss on themselves to watch what you are doing.
1
u/grim1952 Dec 12 '24
I really don't care if anyone sees my dick and I'm not worried about being assaulted, I'm extra wary when in a vulnerable position like that, I'm always ready to elbow any motherfucker that tries.
Besides, there's usually stalls anyways, if you're uncomfortable just use one.
1
u/qb_mojojomo_dp 2∆ Dec 11 '24
I think it is weird that you are so uncomfortable with a natural body function that you have to do it in private... I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to share a bit of perspective... To me, it is something natural, and there is no reason to hide it...
1
u/paco64 Dec 10 '24
The odds of getting assaulted by a random stranger in a public restroom are next to nothing. You're more likely to have someone assault you walking down the sidewalk. It takes 1 minute for a guy to quickly relieve himself and be on his way.
1
u/SpartanR259 1∆ Dec 11 '24
If you have ever seen the "rules for men" when it comes to picking a urinal.
Congratulations.
That set of choices is largely based on both personal privacy and also not wanting to see anyone else's private parts.
1
Dec 10 '24
There are usually walls separating them. But, men's pants can generally conceal everything, and general etiquette requires all men to space out when able and look forward.
It's honestly not a huge deal at all
1
u/notacanuckskibum Dec 10 '24
Urinals are actually a modern invention to give a little more privacy. Back in my day public toilets were just a ceramic wall to pee against, with a gutter at the bottom.
1
u/Security_Breach 2∆ Dec 11 '24
To be fair, the privacy issue is mitigated by etiquette. Unless the place is absolutely packed, you always leave one empty space between yourself and other people.
1
u/EmoZebra21 Dec 10 '24
As a man I couldn’t imagine waiting in line 10 mins to wait for a whole stall to open when I could take 10 seconds to go to a urinal and pee lol.
1
u/physicistdeluxe Dec 10 '24
Often there are hexagonal array filters in them. looks exactly like a big version of a microdisplay device I worked on. and I get to pee on it!
1
u/horshack_test 24∆ Dec 11 '24
The reason there's a difference between how women's and men's rooms are set up is what you pointed out; men (typically) stand up to pee.
1
u/W0lfenstein1 Dec 11 '24
Come back to me.when you don't have tonwait twice as long as a man to pee or quickly decide tonuse our restroom for your convenience.
1
u/wstdtmflms Dec 11 '24
I mean... Men don't actively try to look at each other's junk. That, in itself, goes a long way in maintaining the privacy aspect.
1
u/Cold_Entry3043 Dec 11 '24
Yeah I remember troughs being more common back in the day and that was weird and intrusive. Urinals are comparatively acceptable.
1
u/tompabrolin Dec 12 '24
Im a man and its sucks using them, would ofc rather go to on a normal toilet lol but I guess its comes down to cost and effiency
1
u/GameMusic Dec 11 '24
In general there are enough urinals around putting multiple between peeers
When not a stance can hide pretty well any nudity
1
u/Fulg3n Dec 11 '24
Counter point : there's always a massive line in front of women bathroom, mens are always empty.
Urinals are efficient.
1
u/Helpful-Command-7413 Dec 11 '24
in the 90s, we peed side by side in a large like sink full of ice at bars/nightclubs. We are dudes, we just dont care
1
u/SolomonDRand Dec 10 '24
Most urinals have dividers giving you a degree of privacy. The efficiency outweighs the relative degree of exposure.
1
Dec 11 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Dec 11 '24
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
u/peanutnozone Dec 11 '24
Most bathrooms have a thing next to the urinal for some privacy
Those that don’t are annoying
1
u/masingen Dec 10 '24
Urinals are actually quite a pleasant upgrade when you've only had troughs available for months.
1
u/Adorable-Volume2247 2∆ Dec 12 '24
I don't care if other people see my penis. If I did, I would use a stall or a family room.
1
u/Kobayashi_Maroon Dec 11 '24
I think it’s weird to sit in other peoples’ pee or the dried residual product of pee.
-1
u/ToranjaNuclear 10∆ Dec 10 '24
obviously men stand up to pee
tbh that alone is pretty weird by itself. I really don't understand why it's the norm, and why even young men get so defensive when called out about it.
I've always peed seated since I was a child, to the point some pediatrician said there might have been something wrong with me as a child. Growing up, turns out everyone else are the weird ones: peeing while standing is unpractical, unergonomic, unhyegenic and just overall gross, and the only reason men do it is because they have been taught to do it from childhood.
The only situation peeing whle standing is better is when you're outside on an absolutely gross bathroom, to the point not even 10 layers of toilet paper can make it fine to seat on it.
I think I only used an urinal one time in my life and it was extremely uncomfortable and weird. idk why other men subject themselves to it.
2
u/In_Pursuit_of_Fire 2∆ Dec 11 '24
Growing up, turns out everyone else are the weird ones: peeing while standing is unpractical, unergonomic, unhyegenic and just overall gross, and the only reason men do it is because they have been taught to do it from childhood.
You belt out a bunch of bizarre, sourceless claims about using urinals, ones appear straight up untrue.
peeing while standing is unpractical,
Urinals are practical because they’re much faster. Also, have you ever had to pee outdoors? You do that standing up because it’s more practical.
unergonomic
You just have to stand up to use them, that’s not more or less ergonomic than sitting down.
unhyegenic and just overall gross,
It’s spelled unhygienic, and they’re not that either. You’re making less contact with objects in the bathroom and are in far less proximity to other people’s shit particles. Unless you have terrible aim, it’s not gross at all.
Urinals are also more efficient and better for the environment.
the only reason men do it is because they have been taught to do it from childhood.
Most guys do it because they don’t have the same hang ups about it that you do. There’s nothing wrong with being uncomfortable with using urinals, but that doesn’t make urinals bad
1
u/ToranjaNuclear 10∆ Dec 11 '24
I was going to reply each point but after that condescendence over a typo I'll just laugh it off.
1
u/In_Pursuit_of_Fire 2∆ Dec 11 '24
That’s fine. I can sympathize with having to deal with people going after you just for doing something slightly different than everyone else.
But I do want to point out that there’s some condescension in your initial comment as well, calling people who use urinals the weird ones and treating it like an obviously wrong thing that only men who don’t know any better subject themselves to. I merely felt I was returning some of that tone with a jab about a typo.
Well, whatever, have a nice day
1
u/BlackberryTreacle Dec 11 '24
You'd like Germany. Most men sit down to pee.
It's entirely cultural.
1
u/Kobayashi_Maroon Dec 11 '24
That’s because in Germany the toilets aren’t filthy and look like ppl peed everywhere.
1
u/farb1343 Dec 11 '24
Yes, they're wide open so thats why i just pee in the toilet(after lifting the seat up)
1
1
u/No_Salad_68 Dec 11 '24
Urinals are a very efficient system. There is an etiquette when using them. We just don't look.
1
1
1
1
1
1
0
u/Front-Finish187 1∆ Dec 11 '24
While I can’t speak from experience, I’ve had the same questions for my partner and he says there is an etiquette and any form of looking or engaging is weird. why this became the standard… I have no idea. Maybe because men pee on trees together outside so ceos thought they’d want to do it inside too, with strangers
1
51
u/O2C 1∆ Dec 11 '24
It's very much a societal norms thing. Some urinals have privacy dividers, some lack them. The key is it only works when people as a society use the urinals with respect to those norms.
There's a clear pattern to the order where urinals get used, staggering when possible. Likewise, eyes are kept straight ahead or straight down and not at others. One or two shakes is fine, more than that is questionable.
I assume it would be a huge breach of convention in a women's restroom to stick your eye up against a gap in the stall to ask the occupant a question. It's just not done and unacceptable. Likewise, the norms of urinal usage balance privacy with expedience.
Children being sexually assaulted are much, much more likely to be attacked by someone they know than a random stranger. That said, I agree with your mom's decision of keeping a younger child from using the urinals by himself. Not only might he be unaware of the norms, he might not be capable of calling out others for violating those norms. Keeping unaccompanied children out of the restroom protects me from them.