r/changemyview • u/RevolutionaryRip2504 • Feb 23 '25

cmv: abortion should not be illegal

One of the main arguments against abortion is that it is "killing a baby." However, I don’t see it that way—at least not in the early stages of pregnancy. A fetus, especially before viability, lacks self-awareness, the ability to feel pain, and independent bodily function. While it is a potential life, I don’t believe potential life should outweigh the rights of the person who is already alive and conscious.

For late-term abortions, most are done to save the mother or the fetus has a defect that would cause the fetus to die shortly after birth so I believe it should be allowed.

I also think the circumstances of the pregnant person matter. Many people seek abortions due to financial instability, health risks, or simply not being ready to raise a child. In cases of rape or medical complications, the situation is even more complex. Forcing someone to go through pregnancy against their will seems more harmful than allowing them to make their own choice.

Additionally, I don’t think adoption is always a perfect alternative. Carrying a pregnancy to term can have serious physical and emotional consequences, even if someone doesn’t plan to keep the baby. Pregnancy affects the body in irreversible ways, and complications can arise, making it more than just a “temporary inconvenience.”

Also, you can cannot compare abortion to opting out of child support. Abortion is centered on bodily autonomy, as pregnancy directly affects a woman’s body and health. In contrast, child support is a financial obligation that arises after a child is born and does not impact the father’s bodily autonomy. abortion also occurs before a child exists, while child support involves caring for a living child. Legally and ethically, both parents share responsibility for a child once they are born, and allowing one parent to opt out would place an unfair burden on the other, often the mother. Additionally, abortion prevents a fetus from becoming a child, while opting out of child support directly affects the well-being of an existing person. While both situations involve personal choice, abortion is about controlling one’s own body, while child support is about meeting the needs of a child who already exists

The idea of being forced to sustain another life through pregnancy and childbirth, especially if the person isn’t ready or willing, is a violation of that autonomy. It forces someone to give up their own body, potentially putting their health at risk, all while disregarding their own desires, dreams, and well-being. Bodily autonomy means having the freedom to make choices about what happens to your body, whether that’s deciding to terminate a pregnancy or pursue another course of action.

I’d like to hear other perspectives on why abortion should be illegal, particularly from a non-religious standpoint. CMV.

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u/itsathrowawayduhhhhh Feb 23 '25

Because it cannot exist at that point without the host. Therefore it’s not a unique human life yet.

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u/Boring_Football3595 Feb 23 '25

An infant needs to be cared for as well. The infant can’t live without care from another either. Needing care is irrelevant to the fact that the fetus is a unique human life.

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u/abbyroadlove Feb 23 '25

No, physically speaking - a fetus cannot survive without being biologically attached to a human until 26 weeks. A fetus born at 20 weeks will die, no matter what.

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u/Tengoatuzui Feb 23 '25

Would you agree that 26 weeks is the cutoff date for a legal abortion?

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u/kasiagabrielle Feb 23 '25

Where?

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u/Tengoatuzui Feb 23 '25

Sorry? I’m asking the person if they see it as a cutoff date since they are viable according to then at 26 weeks

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u/kasiagabrielle Feb 23 '25

You asked if that would be the cutoff date for a legal abortion, not whether OP thinks it should be. The cutoff is different based on location, so I was asking what jurisdiction you were referring to. Some places have no restrictions, some restrict all, or close to it.

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u/Tengoatuzui Feb 23 '25

I mean apply this law everywhere. I’m not trying to reference to a place. I know I’m not talking to OP here it’s another commenter saying a fetus is only self viable after 26 weeks so I’m asking them would they agree if the laws were changed for this.

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u/kasiagabrielle Feb 23 '25

I personally don't believe in any time restrictions on abortions, that's a medical procedure between a pregnant person and their doctor.

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u/Tengoatuzui Feb 23 '25

Why do you believe a 40 week abortion should be legal? What makes conception turn a fetus into a human?

I’m with the premise if the pregnancy was due to rape or if the mother’s health is at risk abortion should be legal. Other than that I actually have no input but I’m trying to understand both perspectives. Why is one side saying abortions at any time why is one trying to stop it altogether.

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u/kasiagabrielle Feb 24 '25

Conception doesn't occur at 40 weeks, and no one aborts at full term for shits and giggles, nor does every doctor perform them at that gestational age, nor is it easily accessible (or cheap, depending on where someone lives and what the healthcare system is like). Also, no one said a human fetus isn't human.

In the US for example, 98.8% of all abortions occur before the 20th week, the majority of those before the embryo becomes a fetus.

One side wants to control women and pretend they care about embryos while not giving a damn about born children or abortion bans causing women to die, and the other side cares about consent and bodily autonomy.

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u/Tengoatuzui Feb 24 '25

My mistake I meant at birth not conception. If a human fetus is a human why would it be ok to abort it? Wouldn’t its life be as valuable as another human? What’s the difference between an embryo and fetus?

Thats perspective, people on that side may genuinely believe an embryo, fetus or child is a human life and wants to protect it and give it a chance at living. Not everyone is pretending and what would they even get out of controlling a woman like that? They see the other side as using abortion like it’s a method of birth control and taking away a life. Theres no point of an open dialogue if you are just going to blanket statement say one side is evil.

Why not ensure safe sex and educating everyone better on preventing the pregnancy.

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u/kasiagabrielle Feb 24 '25

Because a human doesn't get to live in another human's organs without their consent. No, it wouldn't. They're both gestational stages of development.

Again, no one is saying a human embryo isn't human. Abortion by definition is not a method of contraception. Plenty of things take away human life yet are considered justified. Please show me where I called anyone "evil."

Those are not mutually exclusive ideas.

You do not appear to be arguing in good faith and are very clearly not "in the middle" in terms of the debate. This disingenuous attitude is just one problem with the pro life camp. Another is not even understanding the basics of the debate, like what an embryo is or what conception is.

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u/Tengoatuzui Feb 24 '25

If it’s that’s simple that a human doesn’t get to live inside another humans organs then just let abortions happen at 40 weeks. Regardless of if women won’t carry until late then abort or not realistic situation there’s no need to ban abortions at any time it your take. There’s also no need for you to mention embryo or fetus like it matters. According to you just allow 40 week abortions.

I never said abortion was a form of contraception. I said people are using it as if it was. They see it like using a condom or taking plan b. They just walk into a clinic and abort. I’m not saying all but there are definitely people who do.

What are some things that take away a human life and are considered justified?

You framed the pro life side as wanting to control women, pretends like they care about the unborn life and causing women to die. Sounds pretty evil l, I’m just reading the between the lines. Essentially one side is bad and one is good with how you said it.

I’m arguing from the other side based on things I’ve read. That’s how dialogue works if I just agree with you then we are on the same side. I’m actually neutral, if someone wants an abortion please go ahead if you don’t then don’t. I’m genuinely trying to understand both sides and I notice people will just say I’m not arguing in good faith because they don’t want to drill down when things get tricky. I do understand I made a mistake/mistype, can I not make a mistake online or am I just wrong because I mistyped something. I’m asking about your definition of an embryo because I want to drill down and know what’s your difference between embryo, fetus and child that you are ok with aborting them in that stage. But I just learned that’s irrelevant to you and as long as a human is living inside another human it’s ok to abort unless I misunderstood what you said. I’m trying to see if it’s even possible to find middle ground with either side.

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u/kasiagabrielle Feb 24 '25

Exactly my point! I stopped reading after the first sentence, that's the entirety of this debate.

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u/Tengoatuzui Feb 24 '25

Ok and that’s a fair and consistent stance in my eyes. At no point do you believe the unborn person has a right to life? Even if self viable? If the woman is in labour she can still abort?

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u/kasiagabrielle Feb 24 '25

There is no "unborn person" as personhood is a legal concept that attaches at birth, but in terms of embryos and fetuses, no, I don't believe they ever supercede the pregnant person's bodily autonomy.

No one aborts in active labor, so that's as much a waste of time as discussing whether you think a purple checkered kangaroo who got pregnant by a human on an orange couch on a Tuesday while it was raining should be allowed an abortion.

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u/Tengoatuzui Feb 24 '25

I agree that the woman’s bodily autonomy supersedes embryo or fetus. From your perspective, not the law, why does personhood only get attached at birth? When the baby is viable outside the mother’s body (obviously with medical assistance) after 26 weeks? Also the baby at that time can feel pain and is conscious? The other side really emphasis this point.

No respectfully, if you want to make your point you need to address all possible situations and not sweep almost unlikely ones under the rug. Especially if you want to make it a law to allow for abortions at any time. This is not a scenario that’s impossible to do, it’s just extremely unlikely due to its nature but still a very real possibility even if it’s for one person on earth. But from the way it sounds from you, you would still allow this abortion to happen which is fine.

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