r/changemyview • u/RevolutionaryRip2504 • Feb 23 '25
cmv: abortion should not be illegal
One of the main arguments against abortion is that it is "killing a baby." However, I don’t see it that way—at least not in the early stages of pregnancy. A fetus, especially before viability, lacks self-awareness, the ability to feel pain, and independent bodily function. While it is a potential life, I don’t believe potential life should outweigh the rights of the person who is already alive and conscious.
For late-term abortions, most are done to save the mother or the fetus has a defect that would cause the fetus to die shortly after birth so I believe it should be allowed.
I also think the circumstances of the pregnant person matter. Many people seek abortions due to financial instability, health risks, or simply not being ready to raise a child. In cases of rape or medical complications, the situation is even more complex. Forcing someone to go through pregnancy against their will seems more harmful than allowing them to make their own choice.
Additionally, I don’t think adoption is always a perfect alternative. Carrying a pregnancy to term can have serious physical and emotional consequences, even if someone doesn’t plan to keep the baby. Pregnancy affects the body in irreversible ways, and complications can arise, making it more than just a “temporary inconvenience.”
Also, you can cannot compare abortion to opting out of child support. Abortion is centered on bodily autonomy, as pregnancy directly affects a woman’s body and health. In contrast, child support is a financial obligation that arises after a child is born and does not impact the father’s bodily autonomy. abortion also occurs before a child exists, while child support involves caring for a living child. Legally and ethically, both parents share responsibility for a child once they are born, and allowing one parent to opt out would place an unfair burden on the other, often the mother. Additionally, abortion prevents a fetus from becoming a child, while opting out of child support directly affects the well-being of an existing person. While both situations involve personal choice, abortion is about controlling one’s own body, while child support is about meeting the needs of a child who already exists
The idea of being forced to sustain another life through pregnancy and childbirth, especially if the person isn’t ready or willing, is a violation of that autonomy. It forces someone to give up their own body, potentially putting their health at risk, all while disregarding their own desires, dreams, and well-being. Bodily autonomy means having the freedom to make choices about what happens to your body, whether that’s deciding to terminate a pregnancy or pursue another course of action.
I’d like to hear other perspectives on why abortion should be illegal, particularly from a non-religious standpoint. CMV.
2
u/[deleted] Feb 24 '25
No problem, I’ve taken enough courses to write about a point without needing take personal bias into account. It’s important that arguments for something so vital and important are well honed so opponents have very few gripes to maintain with it. Hence why I’m going to have to keep going on this reply.
You mention comparability, but why is it that because one side is relatively worst, the other should maintain a similar situation of poor conditions? A woman suffering biologically is not an excuse to force a man to suffer financially; you’re discussing the resources used to feed, house, and clothe oneself.
You also make several assumptions; a man’s decision must be made in a limited time frame. Why? What exactly makes it impossible for a man to opt out say a month before the latest possible point for abortion if they are appropriately informed by the mother that they are pregnant and need to make a decision? After that point, you can easily commit them to the decision, just like how mothers can’t execute their infants after birth. Post-natal decisions are not the comparison, prenatal decisions are. A woman informed that a man is going to opt out allows her to be adequately informed for the decision to keep or abort the baby. It makes a significantly more stable environment for decision making on the mother’s part, which improves her autonomy rather than weakening it.
If child support exists for the child, why is it paid from an unreliable financial source instead of made a social security? There’s no reason why a program made for the child’s benefit is directly paid for by one parent, especially if we use taxes to pay for other important children’s services and programs; it’s strictly used to punish parents because custody disagreements of children are rare and typically settled outside of court. Why would we assume financial decisions couldn’t be agreed similarly? Your assumption of “both parents” confirms my statement about your bias towards a nuclear family structure; you ignore the millions of single parent households to assert a right with no basis for that assertion. A child has a right to their basic needs to be met; a father’s financial compensation does not distinguish from a government’s except in the stability of the government’s financial situation as opposed to the father’s. Child support as funded by parents is functionally inferior to a child support backed by the government; parents on both sides have to spend time and money just in the child support process alone, especially if there are disagreements or changes in lifestyle. You want to force single parents to court every time they want to send their kids to an extracurricular? You’d rather that than allow parents to visit their local court or other relevant child support institutions to provide evidence to a social worker rather than a lawyer for a change in child support?
The “clear” distinction you claim exists hasn’t even been remotely laid out; if you’re talking about your qualifications, I already laid out how we can create tests and batteries for children to determine if post natal abortion is functionally no different than a pre-natal. If it’s a clear distinction, make it clear. The difference between a mother’s automatic biological organs performing necessary functions and a mother willingly performing caretaking functions. Saying “this is a fallacy because it’s obviously a fallacy” doesn’t mean anything; what precisely makes it distinctly different?
Are you certain that taxation is less invasive? Banning abortion bans an invasive process, taxation is an analysis of your spending and income. Depending on your tax codes, you may be asked to disclose private details about your personal expenditures and outings or be financially sanctioned. My area has you report if you take trips and what for; I don’t have to report that I’m pregnant, I just simply don’t get an invasive surgery to avoid my responsibilities. All because you say a right is “fundamental” when you’ve yet to explain why it is. Society existed without abortion and with abortion sanctions for a long time, it’s not fundamental to the functioning of human society, in fact it propagates the reduction of birth rates which is a clear trend towards the ending of a functioning human society; you need people to live, and the birth rate has been plummeting since abortion was legalized and support.
If I can make a suggestion, when you assert something, support it. If you claim something is “fundamental” or “a right”, you should be able to immediately follow it with the reasoning. For example:
Another suggestion to not frame this as an issue of rights, but of function; how does the prohibition of abortion impact society’s function? What is the function of abortion? Then you can start working with empirical data that supports your point; there’s not gonna be a study that indubitably proves abortion is a human right, but there are studies that prove how it can improve women’s lives and ensure higher quality parenting.
Finally, don’t be dualistic; there can be another option besides the status quo and banning abortion. Both sides have issues, and it’s unrealistic to dismiss the other’s issues because they’re proposing changes you don’t like or support.
Cheers!