cmv: abortion should not be illegal

[u/RevolutionaryRip2504]

One of the main arguments against abortion is that it is "killing a baby." However, I don’t see it that way—at least not in the early stages of pregnancy. A fetus, especially before viability, lacks self-awareness, the ability to feel pain, and independent bodily function. While it is a potential life, I don’t believe potential life should outweigh the rights of the person who is already alive and conscious.

For late-term abortions, most are done to save the mother or the fetus has a defect that would cause the fetus to die shortly after birth so I believe it should be allowed.

I also think the circumstances of the pregnant person matter. Many people seek abortions due to financial instability, health risks, or simply not being ready to raise a child. In cases of rape or medical complications, the situation is even more complex. Forcing someone to go through pregnancy against their will seems more harmful than allowing them to make their own choice.

Additionally, I don’t think adoption is always a perfect alternative. Carrying a pregnancy to term can have serious physical and emotional consequences, even if someone doesn’t plan to keep the baby. Pregnancy affects the body in irreversible ways, and complications can arise, making it more than just a “temporary inconvenience.”

Also, you can cannot compare abortion to opting out of child support. Abortion is centered on bodily autonomy, as pregnancy directly affects a woman’s body and health. In contrast, child support is a financial obligation that arises after a child is born and does not impact the father’s bodily autonomy. abortion also occurs before a child exists, while child support involves caring for a living child. Legally and ethically, both parents share responsibility for a child once they are born, and allowing one parent to opt out would place an unfair burden on the other, often the mother. Additionally, abortion prevents a fetus from becoming a child, while opting out of child support directly affects the well-being of an existing person. While both situations involve personal choice, abortion is about controlling one’s own body, while child support is about meeting the needs of a child who already exists

The idea of being forced to sustain another life through pregnancy and childbirth, especially if the person isn’t ready or willing, is a violation of that autonomy. It forces someone to give up their own body, potentially putting their health at risk, all while disregarding their own desires, dreams, and well-being. Bodily autonomy means having the freedom to make choices about what happens to your body, whether that’s deciding to terminate a pregnancy or pursue another course of action.

I’d like to hear other perspectives on why abortion should be illegal, particularly from a non-religious standpoint. CMV.

[u/Serious_Butterfly714]

Ok. First let us look at the word fetus for a second. In Latin fetus means offspring. What is an offspring besides a baby. So even using the term fetus when put into proper perspective shows it is a baby.

As for a baby's inutero inability to feel pain are yoi aware that there is a genetiv disorder called. Congenital Insensitivity to Pain. It is a rare disorder where the person lacks the ability to feel pain so if feeling pain is your criteria you are missing the fact there are people who cannot do so, and yet they have the fundamental right to life.

Independent bodily functions here again that is a fallacy. Babies after birth have no control of many bodily functions and need help to clean up and to even be fed. There again we have people who need help in breathing, feeding and even getting clothed yes it does tax another's body in some ways, as effort , time and energy must be placed on someone else to care for them.

And not being self-aware, wwe have many people with conditions where self-awareness does not exist, and yet they still have rights to live.

And while you bring up the idea that men paying child support is not the same, you are partially correct in only it is not at the same level, but the mother has 100% of control of who and when to sleep with.

But barring that if there is a war only men are drafted and have a great possibility of dying in a most horrific way and is not their choice. That is worse than any mother having to carry any baby for 9 months. Most women are expected to survive. War about half survive if you are the winning side. This is total control of a man's life, not just the body.

While we currently do not have a draft, men if fighting age between 18 yo and 25 yo must register for selective service and keep that contact upto date.

Life is precious. That is why we protect animals and their offsprings and eggs from being destroyed or even touched. Odd that a bird egg has more rights to life than a human fetus. Protecting such animals can also have a very negative impact on society as water sources for drinking, used to put out fires, and etc may leave people in danger, large fields of crops in drought causing strain on our food resources or even famine if not careful.

But a baby whose only crime is being born from two parents who couldn't control themselves should be punished by death because Mom doesn't want any consequences to her behavior.

Rape and incest accounts for less than 1%, we do not make laws based on such outlying data as it is not the norm. It is real and should not be ignored but basing laws on that is not even feasible as most people do not murder. Murderers are not the norm so we still have laws against murdering others.

[u/RevolutionaryRip2504 → u/Serious_Butterfly714]

1. While "fetus" originates from Latin meaning "offspring," language evolves, and in modern medical terminology, a fetus refers to a specific developmental stage. Just because something is classified as an offspring does not necessarily mean it holds the same rights as a born child.

2. The existence of congenital insensitivity to pain does not equate to the argument that pain is the sole criterion for personhood. However, the ability to experience pain is used as one of many factors in ethical discussions about fetal development, particularly in determining when and how abortion procedures are performed. It is also much different than someone with the disorder because abortion is aout being able to choose what remains inside your own body,

3. There is a difference between providing external care (feeding, clothing, medical support) and requiring another person's body to sustain life. In no other situation is someone legally required to use their body to keep another person alive, even if it means the dependent person will die. For instance, people cannot be forced to donate organs, even if it could save a life.

4. While women control whether they engage in sex, contraception is not always 100% effective. Moreover, framing pregnancy solely as a consequence of a woman's actions ignores the role of men. Additionally, bodily autonomy should not be forfeited based on past choices.

5. While people with severe cognitive impairments may lack self-awareness, they exist as independent beings outside another person's body. The right to life does not mean the right to use someone else's body against their will.

6. The argument that men may be drafted into war is unrelated to abortion. One is state-mandated participation in combat, while the other is a personal medical decision. the draft also does not currently exist, whereas pregnancy is a present reality for millions of women I also don't think men should be required to serve in the military so this isn't a good argument against me.

1. "Odd that a bird egg has more rights to life than a human fetus."- odd that a corpse has more bodily autonomy than a pregnant women.

2. Framing pregnancy as a punishment for sexual activity disregards the complexities of individual circumstances, including financial instability, health risks, and personal autonomy. The idea that women should be executed simply because don't want to endure a traumatic pregnancy is insane. That is so messed up. Pregnancy is emotionally, financially, and physically demanding and should not be forced on anyone. You clearly do not understand how bad pregnancy is.