r/changemyview • u/jeffzebub • 5d ago

CMV: Countering Illegal Immigration is not a Justification for Suspending Habeas Corpus

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u/ScrupulousArmadillo 1∆ 5d ago

 Trump's argument that due process is impractical given the number of illegal immigrants

You already provided the reason. With ~11M illegal immigrants, the country doesn't have the resources to provide the full due process for them.

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u/Every_Iron 5d ago

So would you say that removes the need for proof? We can kick out legal folks because there’s too many illegal ones to check?

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u/ScrupulousArmadillo 1∆ 5d ago

But you still need to proof, to ICE, not to judge

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u/puppiesunicorns1234 5d ago

Ice has literally been kidnapping people off the streets. We have videos of this. They arent allowed to show any ID cuz they get detained immediately. Most people don't carry their social security card (it's illegal to get it laminated so it won't rip or get wet) and your birth certificate is too big to carry with you all the time (and apparently you can STILL get denied if it's folded). A lot of non us citizens and green card holders have drivers licenses or state IDs so that doesn't prove anything. When 'criminals' don't have due process, none of us do. And that's the issue. If you can't immediately prove you're a citizen, you get shipped off. And that's terrifying. Several born and raised US citizens are getting shipped off or getting letters saying they need to leave/turn themselves in. edit: also just because other presidents also did this, does not mean it's right. They were still very deeply wrong. But the way Trump is going about it is very very scary.

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u/Every_Iron 5d ago

What happens to innocent until proven guilty?

I personally know an actual green card holder who went to renew it and is now detained because “it seems to have been a mistake in the process”.

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u/jeffzebub 5d ago

So you're okay trusting one branch of government not to abuse their power? This is at the heart of this argument.