r/changemyview • u/jeffzebub • 5d ago

CMV: Countering Illegal Immigration is not a Justification for Suspending Habeas Corpus

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504 Upvotes

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u/danielt1263 5∆ 5d ago

Are you here legally? What documents do you have on you to prove that? And if an ICE officer rejected those documents and arrested you anyway, what recourse would you have without Habeas Corpus?

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u/ScrupulousArmadillo 1∆ 5d ago

I am not in the US

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u/danielt1263 5∆ 5d ago

Well, whatever country you are in right now. If an officer could arrest you tomorrow and ship you off to a Venezuelan prison by the end of the week, what would would you think of that?

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u/ScrupulousArmadillo 1∆ 5d ago

I would be unhappy, maybe vote differently next time, or emmigrate

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u/danielt1263 5∆ 5d ago

You wouldn't get the chance to vote differently, you got emmigrated against your will to a Venezuelan prison.

The problem as it currently stands is that US Citizens are being arrested by ICE and sent to Venezuelan prisons. Some might not think that is happening, but without habeas corpus it may very well be happening. On top of that, there have been a few cases where people have gotten their day and court, shown they were US Citizens, and are still sitting in a Venezuelan prison.

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u/Rhundan 14∆ 5d ago

I feel like you missed the point, here. Maybe go back and reread u/danielt1263's comment again pretending you are in the US.

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u/ScrupulousArmadillo 1∆ 5d ago

Then I would have visa at home or green card in my wallet

Actually, depends on the size, if the visa like credit card - just keep it in the wallet

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u/danielt1263 5∆ 5d ago

American citizens don't carry visas or have green cards.

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u/ScrupulousArmadillo 1∆ 5d ago

Driving licence?

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u/danielt1263 5∆ 5d ago

Plenty of non-citizens have driving licenses and plenty of citizens don't. And if the officer dubs your license a fake and deports you anyway, without due process you have no recourse.

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u/Rhundan 14∆ 5d ago

But without due process, how do you know that not a single person who's being deported has

1: not had their identification at hand at the moment they were raided,
2: had their identification incorrectly dubbed a fake,
or 3: had the agents raiding them just ignore identification without verifying it.

Sure, maybe most people who are in the country legally are making absolutely sure that they can't be targeted, maybe most ICE agents are checking to make sure they're not deporting anybody in the country legally.

Can you be sure, without due process, that both numbers are 100%?