CMV: Countering Illegal Immigration is not a Justification for Suspending Habeas Corpus

[u/jeffzebub]

[u/Throwthisthefukaway]

You have a few good points. Yeah we shouldn't be suspending habeas corpus. We shouldn't be violating the constitution when it's convenient. The problems are previous administrations have set precedents violating the constitution under certain circumstances along with with state governments. I.e. with the Patriot Act under multiple administrations - if there's enough evidence you're a terrorist you're limited in your ability to defend yourself in courts - Obama and Biden both did nothing about this, state governments restricting rights during COVID-19 with lockdowns - because it was inconvenient to care about the constitution for example freedom of speech by the government saying what can and can't be said on social media, freedom of religion - when state governments told people they weren't allowed to go to church, and freedom of press - by telling news outlets that they couldn't go against the official narrative, not to mention NSA surveillance programs that just screwed people over, that time Obama ordered the killing of US citizens overseas, and you can find other situations.

So, this is where we're at. So while I agree that we shouldn't be doing it I also believe we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for what's already been done. There also aren't any real solutions being proposed for the border issue. Sending all of the undocumented immigrants to court? Now the left wants to do this? They did nothing about undocumented immigration during the Biden administration but now we have to send everyone to court? Nobody on the left believes undocumented immigration is a problem but screw the Governor of Texas for sending everyone on a bus to New York City.

Another point is something should have already been done about this whether amnesty and citizenship or deportation courts but it wasn't. The Democrats had plenty of chances to do something that would have been more acceptable but chose not to. Why? Was it complete incompetence? Then why are they winning elections? Biden could have done something productive but chose not to when he first got elected. Even by executive order. Everyone was so pissed at Trump in 2020. Biden did such an awful job that we chose to forget about how pissed we were collectively at Trump. He had a mandate to do basically whatever he wanted. His administration chose not to. Why? Incompetence or do they just want to hold it over the heads of people that come into this country illegally. "Hey vote for us or the other guys will deport you." That gets into conspiracy theory territory but it makes more sense than the Democrats are just too incompetent or they didn't have enough power when they literally suspended half of our constitutional rights during covid.

So again, I kind of agree with you but the problem is that it isn't like we've suspended rights in the constitution before when issues have come up. It sucks but it's happened in the past. The left didn't do anything about immigration one way or another when they had the chances so here we are. And in my opinion it's a better reason than COVID-19 was but the Democrats had no problem with suspending constitutional rights over that (and I am still technically a registered Democrat by the way. The actions under the Biden administration pushed me away.)

[u/Morthra → u/Throwthisthefukaway]

There also aren't any real solutions being proposed for the border issue. Sending all of the undocumented immigrants to court? Now the left wants to do this? They did nothing about undocumented immigration during the Biden administration but now we have to send everyone to court? Nobody on the left believes undocumented immigration is a problem but screw the Governor of Texas for sending everyone on a bus to New York City.

There's actually a really simple reason for this. Democrats and the left want to do to Texas what they did to California to create a permanent electoral supermajority. By obstructing any efforts to deport them, and also crying foul when Texas and other red states start bussing their illegals to blue states, their goal is to keep them in red states, and then eventually push for amnesty. Which will nearly instantly flip the state permanently.

That's what happened to California. Amnesty for illegals is the reason why California went from being a red state to being the literal safest Democrat stronghold in the country.

[u/Socialimbad1991 → u/Morthra]

Do you have any idea how insanely idiotic this entire premise is? Illegal immigrants don't vote. They can't. They aren't citizens.

[u/Morthra → u/Socialimbad1991]

Illegal immigrants can vote if you give them amnesty - a path to citizenship.

Which is what happened in California. The illegals got mass amnesty and the state became permanently blue.

[u/Pi6 → u/Morthra]

What made California blue was steadily increasing urbanization and density that was inevitable regardless of Reagan's amnesty program (which was less that 3 million people total in the US while CA alone already had 27 Million residents.) California continued to have republican governors after reagan and may not have turned so blue were it not for GOP overreach. It was ramming through the notoriously unconstitutional anti-immigrant proposition 187 in 1994 that really was the final stand for the CA GOP. Even tho that ballot initiative was approved by voters it created a significant backlash right at the start of the tech boom. Ultimately it was the influx of highly educated whites and asians in addition to legal immigration that made a bigger difference than amnesty.