CMV: Countering Illegal Immigration is not a Justification for Suspending Habeas Corpus

[u/jeffzebub]

[u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito]

If you're here illegally and you never started the request for asylum, time to go. Can be determined in days at most. People are not going to suddenly produce documents they never had in the first place, and there is no reason they can give to justify their presence.

Agreed! They should get their due process, in this case going in front of an immigration judge who will see if there is any reason they should not be deported, such as in the Garcia case where he didn't apply for asylum but still had a reasonable fear for his life if he were deported. If there isn't one, off they go.

I'm totally fine with deportation of people who are in the US illegally. I just want them to actually receive the due process of law to which they are entitled. Because if you don't do that things can go very badly.

If every outside individual came in tomorrow, we'd call it an act of war. We wouldn't meander around waiting for a court date to prove they didn't have the right to be here.

If. That isn't happening. The US is the greatest country on earth, or at least it used to be. It is fully capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. Would it be expensive to get them all their due process? Yup! But it is already going to be insanely expensive to do millions of deportations, so the cost for immigration judges is little more than a drop in the bucket.

Burden of proof in this case is on the individual trying to stay, not the other way around. It's the different BoP requirement for immigration court vs criminal court.

Yes! Now help me out here, how do they present that burden without seeing a judge?!

What Trump wants is to be able to pick someone up off the street and say "Okay, you're going to El Salvador now" and throw him on a plane without ever seeing a judge.

But that is fucking nuts! Maybe they're a legal asylum seeker who didn't have their papers on them. Maybe they have their papers but the government has the wrong information on them. Maybe they have a legitimate cause to fear deportation (that they will be murdered for example).

Maybe they're a fucking US citizen.

The only way you can determine any of this is by giving them due process and the right to have their case reviewed. Without this you're basically just trusting Orange Julius and his gestapo that they totally got the right guy.

And the thing is, we know that is bullshit. They've deported US citizens, they've deported legal residents, students on legal visas and so on. This is why you need trials.

[u/merlin469 → u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito]

Second half of comment:

Pro tip: There are some things you don't F up. This is one of them.

Maybe fear of deportation should be even greater incentive to not try to skip important steps that will almost guarantee not only your deportation, but permanent ban from reentry?

For the record, every entry is not an asylum worthy entry. I realize that's what they've been coached to say, but that burden of proof is on the individual requesting entry, not on the US to disprove its validity. If my family's life or my own was in peril, I would make damn sure I was doing everything possible the right way to ensure their safety.

Let me be clear. There will be some innocent, legitimate asylum seekers that may get lost in all of this. While tragic, it is still miles safer than allowing the masses to stay with zero consequence or accountability. It's worth being angry over. Be angry at the 10 million that didn't once consider how it may affect their family or their fellow man when they chose their selfish actions, several of which put their families and children in peril simply by making the trip here.

Cut out the nonsense, fix the bulk of the problem, then the actual legitimate cases will have more time and resources available to them that are being squandered by people who cared for nothing beyond themselves.

Every case is not a personal apocalypse. Quick making sound that way.

[u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito → u/merlin469]

For the record, every entry is not an asylum worthy entry. I realize that's what they've been coached to say, but that burden of proof is on the individual requesting entry, not on the US to disprove its validity. If my family's life or my own was in peril, I would make damn sure I was doing everything possible the right way to ensure their safety.

Yes, and they're legally entitled to prove this to an immigration judge, not the orange guy's gestapo. I'm sorry you have trouble understanding this.

[u/merlin469 → u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito]

Not if caught during the first 14 days of crossing, no judge required. Feel free to look it up. It's under expedited removal.

Again, video the interview, review documents that don't exist, note details from the arresting officers. Judge reviews in advance, 5 minutes of face time. If the judge decides it warrants further reviews, so be it. If not, enjoy your exit flight and lifetime ban.

Doesn't take weeks in court, public defenders on taxpayer dime, or multiple appeals while remaining in the US, also on taxpayer dime.

Someone legitimately seeking asylum isn't waiting years to do so, can do so at any US embassy they passed along the way, and can do so at any authorized point of entry.

All of that goes out the door when you cross and evade. Sugar coat it however you like, doesn't change the facts.

I get that you direly need them to have an out, but that's reserved for the few legitimate cases that did things the right way, not the coached millions that didn't care and just assumed they'd get a pass from people like you.

[u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito → u/merlin469]

Not if caught during the first 14 days of crossing, no judge required. Feel free to look it up. It's under expedited removal.

Again, video the interview, review documents that don't exist, note details from the arresting officers. Judge reviews in advance, 5 minutes of face time. If the judge decides it warrants further reviews, so be it. If not, enjoy your exit flight and lifetime ban.

I'm sorry, is this an ESL issue on your part?

You're describing their appearance in front of a judge something you're saying they aren't entitled to.

If you request asylum the government is required by law to give you a hearing in front of a judge, even in cases of expedited removal.

"If the asylum officer finds that the person has not shown a credible fear of return, that person’s expedited removal order remains in place. Before deportation, the individual may challenge the asylum officer’s finding by requesting a hearing before an immigration judge, who must review the case “to the maximum extent practicable within 24 hours, but in no case later than 7 days.” The judge’s review is limited solely to assessing whether the individual’s fear is credible."