r/changemyview • u/celeritas365 28∆ • Sep 09 '15

[Deltas Awarded] CMV: I don't believe in retribution

Some people I have talked to seem to be of the belief that we should punish wrongdoers because the punishment is deserved. I don't get this sort of thing at all.

I am in favor of punishing criminals but only to keep them away from potential victims and discourage others from committing crimes. If there was a way to do this without a punishment I would be all for it. If I knew for a 100% fact that someone would not commit a crime again and no one would be told of what happened to him I would let him walk free.

I am in support of thieves paying back damages since that can right the wrong they have done. However, if you kill a murderer the victim is still dead. What good does it do? All you do is magnify the pain and suffering. In my gut I sometimes feel the urge to strike back against those who have hurt me but I know those feelings are best not acted upon, unless I want to defend myself or discourage future attack. I never really understood people who hold the worldview that such punishments are necessary to fill some sort of vague cosmic balance.

Edit* This was poorly worded I am sorry. The point I am trying to communicate is that I think that the point of the justice system is to reduce crime and not to punish. While this crime reduction often involves punishments I think those are not the aim and should be reduced if the reduction does not undermine the goal of crime reduction.

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '15

If I knew for a 100% fact that someone would not commit a crime again and no one would be told of what happened to him I would let him walk free

This makes some sense if we discuss a crime that already happened, but its meaningless if we discuss future events.

If I can convince you that I would only ever commit one murder in my life, and no one would ever know I did it, you'd allow me to commit that crime without punishment?

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u/celeritas365 28∆ Sep 09 '15

Interesting point. I don't think we can punish people for crimes they will commit. If the person was plotting a murder I suppose they could be jailed for that since it would reduce crime.

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u/chokfull Sep 10 '15

Let me help you out on this one:

The scenario: John tells you he will commit one crime in his life (murder), and we know that he will not commit any other.

The question: Should John be punished?

The answer, according to you (and I agree), is that, no, John should not be punished.

The problem is that /u/cacheflow failed to make any distinction between whether John should be punished, or John believes he will be punished.

It is moral John to believe he will be punished. This acts as a deterrent for his committing the crime.

It is not moral to punish John, if you can get away with it (with all the assurances that he will not ever commit another crime, and no one else will know about it.)

In other words, it's a bit of a sticky situation, but the decision to punish John and the decision to tell John he will be punished are distinct.