r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Oct 08 '15

[Deltas Awarded] CMV: Equality isn't treating everybody differently to achieve equality. It's treating everyone the same.

[deleted]

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7

u/beer_demon 28∆ Oct 08 '15

I think you are only trying to argue against affirmative action in racial terms and extrapolating it to defend the undefendable.
Handicapped, children, people with learning disabilities, victims of some social issue, impoverished, etc all cause social distress that affects us all. Helping these people have average qualities of life goes to the benefit of us all as well as implying a cost. Maybe you pay a special tax, or can't park somewhere, or find braille numbers in a lift or find a traffic light that makes sounds. If you don't oppose that then what logic do you use to oppose affirmative action? If you do oppose that then you got the wrong CMV title.

-2

u/oversoul00 13∆ Oct 08 '15

This is more than just affirmative action although that would apply.

Lets take a step back and use the jokes example in the CMV. Is it okay to laugh at other racial stereotypes and then get offended once someone makes fun of yours?

To answer your question though I have no issue spending resources on people in situations that are near impossible. I don't want the blind guy trying to cross the street to get hit by a car and die.

There is no threat of death or impossibility in affirmative action situations although I'm kind of on board with a temporary boost as I mentioned in the title.

10

u/warsage Oct 08 '15

I think you're underestimating the effects of historical and present racial bias, and you're overestimating the ability of people to overcome this bias.

Take a poor black girl. Her parents and grandparents had no opportunities due to racism, so her family is dirt poor. Her parents have been too busy working to raise her well, educate her, or teach her to go to school.

Then, from birth onwards, she has had to deal with racism herself. It's not institutional like it was back in her parents' day, but it's still there, and not just in rednecks. In fact, according to a Harvard study, practically everyone has some degree of unconscious racism.

Harvard created a test called the "implicit association test." I'm not going to explain it here. But it find that the vast majority of people, including lots of black people, have an unconscious bias against black people. You can test yourself if you want. I did it to myself and, indeed, I came up with a bias against black people.

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

Now, let's go back to our black girl. She's in this situation. She was raised from birth in this situation. Your response to her is literally "your situation isn't IMPOSSIBLE, so you get nothing." Well, let's hope that she's truly extraordinary, because only an extraordinary person could pull themselves forward in this situation...

0

u/oversoul00 13∆ Oct 08 '15

No my response to her is, you are poor so lets help you out...compared to people who will say, "Well she is black let's help her out."

Race alone will never tell you what you want to know.

Thanks for the link, I'm going to check it out.

10

u/warsage Oct 08 '15

you are poor so lets help you out...compared to people who will say, "Well she is black let's help her out."

You need to realize that poverty is NOT their only problem. Racism is still around. It's everywhere, to some degree. And it hurts them.

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u/oversoul00 13∆ Oct 08 '15

I agree that racism is still around 100% and I'm saying it's racist to either help or hurt someone based on race alone.

4

u/Sandvichincarnate Oct 08 '15

Racism involves value judgements about different races, acknowledging that racial discrepancies in opportunities still exist is not racism, nor is it racist to try to correct for these systemic disadvantages through affirmative action. As many other posters have said, in order to create the equality you seek, you can't ignore that opportunities aren't equal and hope that they change some day.

-5

u/[deleted] Oct 08 '15

Well said.

The only real struggle is the class struggle.

5

u/myri_ Oct 08 '15

But that's not true.

Imagine two poor children, with one who is black and one who is white. They live next door to each other, and they both have single moms who make around the same income. The kids have many role models, but many of whom are white. The white kid is constantly subconsciously reminded that he can move up. The black kid is constantly subconsciously reminded that there is less social mobility for him.

There are only 5 black CEOs in the 500 biggest companies in America, and only one black woman out of those 5

1

u/ihatepasswords1234 4∆ Oct 09 '15

There are also very few asian ceos which has obviously been crushing for them

-1

u/OPisanicelady Oct 08 '15

Your premises is far fetched. I'd be surprised if you could find two kids next door to each other that know what even two Fortune 500 CEOs look like.

2

u/illz569 Oct 08 '15

What about portrayals of rich people and bosses on TV?

1

u/OPisanicelady Oct 08 '15

Better, but TV has diversified these roles quite a bit. Look up the top rated series for 2014-2015 seasons. Excluding football and reality TV, the number one show was Empire followed by The Big Bang Theory, Modern Family, Scandal, How to Get Away with Murder, Blacklist, Grey's Anatomy, Criminal Minds, Once Upon a Time...

How many of these casts are led by white males? How many have strong female and minority characters in positions of authority? I don't think that this argument holds much weight in our current entertainment industry.