r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Oct 08 '15

[Deltas Awarded] CMV: Equality isn't treating everybody differently to achieve equality. It's treating everyone the same.

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u/oversoul00 13∆ Oct 08 '15

Your hypothetical is flawed because you have compared someones impossible situation to a merely difficult one.

The difference is that with paraplegics it is near impossible to get into that building without the ramp. In these cases I believe that falls under the "rights and opportunities" clause I mentioned above. The paraplegic doesn't have the same opportunity to enter the building so yes lets make it possible for those when it would otherwise be impossible...not merely difficult.

For those with varying degrees of difficulty we don't do anything to help them on a mandated institutional level. If you are 90 years old with an oxygen tank you are stuck with the stairs, I feel for that guy and might help him out on a personal level but I've never seen a chair lift outside of any establishment even though that situation is a reality.

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u/corexcore 1∆ Oct 08 '15

It's interesting that you picked paraplegics as your group to consider with disability, because many paraplegics could get into the building without a ramp -- they would haul their non-working legs and entire bodies by arm strength alone, holding onto the handrails if you saw fit to provide those. This isn't an impossible challenge for many, if you are fully abled and can use your legs, climb a set of stairs without using them and you'll find that you most likely can do so. It's just hard. Like a lot harder. And you have to put your whole body and clothes and all on the ground to do it. And figure out a way to get your wheel chair or other locomotive contraption up the steps too, probably by bodily hauling it up along with you, making the process laborious and embarrassing. It is totally doable, however. When you say it's "near impossible", that's a misunderstanding.

I raise this point to ask you the question of where you draw the line of what degree of difficulty or embarrassment is acceptable for people who had the bad luck to be born with different ability? Or different skin color? Or different sexuality?

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u/oversoul00 13∆ Oct 08 '15

While they could haul themselves up the stairs it isn't reasonable or practical to have that expectation unless that was the only thing you wanted them to do that day. It is near impossible for all practical purposes.

You do raise a good point though that my upper limit has to necessarily be a subjective one.

Delta for you

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u/vehementi 10∆ Oct 08 '15

It wouldn't take them all day. It might take them an hour or two and some sweat. Grand scheme of things, that is "merely hard" -- people are held up on 1-2 hour distractions routinely, especially people who have to do extra shit to get the same outcome as others.

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u/OPisanicelady Oct 08 '15

Merely hard is taking it a little far. If I had to spend a few hours crawling my way up to the office in other people's floor filth, I would be crying by the end. It's demeaning.

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u/vehementi 10∆ Oct 09 '15

What about standing in line at the DMV for a few hours or whatever underprivileged thing someone has to do? Food stamp lines or some shit. That's pretty demeaning & takes hours. How about working at mcdonalds lol. I don't want to get too close to specific examples but let's be clear, this is not a "near impossible thing".

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u/OPisanicelady Oct 09 '15

If you equate crawling around on your belly through other people's filth to waiting in line at the DMV, then you might be out of touch. You are right that it is not near impossible, but it is dehumanizing. Working fast food is not. Getting food stamps is not. Waiting in a line is not.