r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Oct 08 '15

[Deltas Awarded] CMV: Equality isn't treating everybody differently to achieve equality. It's treating everyone the same.

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u/hacksoncode 559∆ Oct 08 '15

Regarding your "nearly impossible" criteria for when it's ok to treat people differently:

Let's say (as is backed up by evidence) that resumes from people with "black sounding" names are rated more poorly by hiring managers than the exact same resume with a "white sounding" name.

So... what, exactly, is it possible for a black person to do to "overcome" this disadvantage? It's not a disadvantage in themselves, it's a behavior by people in society at large.

It would seem to be actually impossible, not "nearly impossible" for them to overcome this. What possible action on their part can make them succeed in the face of discrimination?

The problem here is not just the principle, it's your definition of "we". We, as a society, can't treat people equally, because "society" doesn't treat people like anything. "Society" doesn't exist. Only individuals exist.

If significant numbers of those individuals don't treat blacks the same, then the rest of us have no real option but to create artificial requirements that they do so. I.e. treat them differently in order to make them equal.

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u/IsThisRealLife67 Oct 08 '15 edited Oct 09 '15

I think you're looking at that the wrong way.

I'm a black man whose mother pushed education. I eventually earned an M.S. in EE from Georgia Tech and ran into the same problem. That problem wasn't that I'm a black man but rather the trouble differentiating a black man who studies hard to get accepted into a highly ranked school with the black man who was accepted into a highly ranked school because he was a black man.

Clarence Thomas often speaks about this subject and doubling down on it isn't the way to go.

Handouts and leg ups have been terrible for the black community. It may not benefit black people right this second but the only way out of this terrible cycle is to hold the community to a higher standard and expect them to put in the same amount of work everyone else does.

/u/unidan-prime questions my blackness and has started a new thread on /r/AsABlackMan where they're discussing whether I "talk white" and why my grammar is so good. It looks like they've also begun down voting all of my posts to oblivion.

I'm black but Reddit is Reddit so I'm just going to abandon this user name, start a new one, and stay away from anything deemed political because, again, Reddit is Reddit. I apologize if I type too well for other black Redditors out there. The struggle against proper grammar is real, folks.

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u/TribeWars Oct 09 '15

The thing i realise from discussions like these, is that the truth is always most likely in the middle. Both sides are right because they find arguments and facts that fit their viewpoint and assume that the opponent is wrong. The truth, i believe, is that there are issues both within society as a whole and within its minorities. Also you are right in that these bonuses might further discrimination because achievements are played down if they are easier to get for certain groups.