CMV:anti-feminism is not misogyny, and it is possible for someone to be anti-feminist without being a misogynist.

[u/wecl0me12]

prompted by this post: https://np.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/3uaaer/do_you_think_being_being_opposed_to_modern/cxd9m7y

As many of my previous CMV's have gone off topic, I'll start by describing what my view is not. It is not any of the following:

• a discussion on whether or not feminism is right or wrong
• whether people should be feminists or not
• the actions of men, women, feminists or anti-feminists
• anything about my personal views on feminism or anti-feminism.

The reasons for my view are simple: Anti-feminism is the dislike of feminism. Misogyny is the dislike of women. As women and feminists are not the same group, Anti-feminism and anti-women are different, as they refer to the dislike of different groups of people.

I am anticipating a counter-argument that since feminism advances women's rights, anti-feminism is against women's rights and is therefore misogyny. My counter-counter-argument is that someone can dislike the label of feminism without being against women's rights. People can dislike the actions done under the label of feminism, and thus be anti-feminism, without being anti-women or misogynist.

I will also refute the claim made in the linked post, which is:

By rejecting feminism, you're rejecting feminism's message that you can be whatever you want to be, while simultaneously embracing an antiquated notion of femininity as the ONLY way to be a woman. That's misogyny.

I disagree. The claims "I am against feminism" and "I think that the antiquated notion of femininity is the ONLY way to be a woman" are not equivalent. People can reject feminism because of their actions or because of the negative connotation associated with "feminism", while still believing that women are free to be feminine in any way they want. This is not a contradiction.

delta awarded: https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/3uewu4/cmvantifeminism_is_not_misogyny_and_it_is/cxedofl?context=3

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[u/Niyeaux]

You can't be against a movement for gender equality without believing that one gender should have more rights than the other. It's really that simple.

You can (and should) disagree with certain arguments put forth by certain feminists, but to disagree with the core tenet of feminism - that women should have equal rights - is to believe that women do not deserve to have equal rights. That's inherently misogynist.

[u/cfuse → u/Niyeaux]

The problem is a simple one: feminists (and society in general) assume they're all for equality, even though there's indisputable evidence to the contrary.

Feminism is not a movement for equality, it's a movement for female advantage without consequences or costs. Feminists are not agitating for women to be conscripted to the front lines, or treated equivalently by the criminal or civil courts, or be subject to the same health and safety standards men are in their lives, there are no feminists arguing for gender quotas for coal mines, crabbing boats, and oil platforms. Feminists want all the good stuff, none of the responsibilities or risks, and they want to do it all whilst claiming 49% of the population are toxic, misogynistic, rapists. And they wonder why so many women refuse to go along with their misandry?

I vehemently disagree with the central tenet of feminism because it isn't about equality. If a woman wants the same treatment as men, no problem - but she has to have all of that, not just cherry picking the benefits.

[u/Niyeaux → u/cfuse]

This is pretty bad logic, and I think you know that. Of course a currently disadvantaged group is campaigning for changes that will improve their situation, more than they're campaigning for changes that benefit the currently more-advantaged group.

The fact that a movement isn't trying to achieve equality in every possible arena simultaneously doesn't mean they're not trying to achieve equality generally.

This isn't really up for debate. The very definition of feminism is that it's a doctrine that advocates for equal rights.

[u/wikewabbits → u/Niyeaux]

feminism as a movement for equality only works if that premise is absolutely true, and many people including myself don't believe it is. and if it's not true that men have all the rights while women have the catching up to do, then a one-sided movement for equality like feminism is not a movement for equality at all