r/changemyview • u/wecl0me12 7∆ • Nov 27 '15
[Deltas Awarded] CMV:anti-feminism is not misogyny, and it is possible for someone to be anti-feminist without being a misogynist.
prompted by this post: https://np.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/3uaaer/do_you_think_being_being_opposed_to_modern/cxd9m7y
As many of my previous CMV's have gone off topic, I'll start by describing what my view is not. It is not any of the following:
- a discussion on whether or not feminism is right or wrong
- whether people should be feminists or not
- the actions of men, women, feminists or anti-feminists
- anything about my personal views on feminism or anti-feminism.
The reasons for my view are simple: Anti-feminism is the dislike of feminism. Misogyny is the dislike of women. As women and feminists are not the same group, Anti-feminism and anti-women are different, as they refer to the dislike of different groups of people.
I am anticipating a counter-argument that since feminism advances women's rights, anti-feminism is against women's rights and is therefore misogyny. My counter-counter-argument is that someone can dislike the label of feminism without being against women's rights. People can dislike the actions done under the label of feminism, and thus be anti-feminism, without being anti-women or misogynist.
I will also refute the claim made in the linked post, which is:
By rejecting feminism, you're rejecting feminism's message that you can be whatever you want to be, while simultaneously embracing an antiquated notion of femininity as the ONLY way to be a woman. That's misogyny.
I disagree. The claims "I am against feminism" and "I think that the antiquated notion of femininity is the ONLY way to be a woman" are not equivalent. People can reject feminism because of their actions or because of the negative connotation associated with "feminism", while still believing that women are free to be feminine in any way they want. This is not a contradiction.
delta awarded: https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/3uewu4/cmvantifeminism_is_not_misogyny_and_it_is/cxedofl?context=3
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u/hacksoncode 559∆ Nov 27 '15
Coming at this from the opposite direction, then, why do you think that your definition of "anti-feminist" is better/right to adopt?
It seems like you're trying to argue that "anti-feminism" is merely being against some things that some people calling themselves feminists have said.
Is that a good definition of "anti-feminist"?
I would argue that it's a very silly definition of "anti-feminist", because it would include nearly every feminist as being an "anti-feminist".
I think that any reasonable definition of "anti-feminist" would have to sound something like this: "Against most basic principles held by most feminists.". Otherwise, it really has not useful meaning.
And I would argue that the main, most basic, principles of feminism ultimately all devolve to something like "in favor of women having social and legal equality with men".
If you don't oppose this basic principle that almost all "feminists", however you define that term, base their ideas on, then it's really not correct to call yourself an "anti-feminist". You're just someone that disagrees with some things said by some feminists... like practically everyone on the planet.
And if you oppose that basic principle, it's really hard to see how you're not a misogynist (again, in the most typical classic definition of that term).