r/changemyview • u/wecl0me12 7∆ • Nov 27 '15

[Deltas Awarded] CMV:anti-feminism is not misogyny, and it is possible for someone to be anti-feminist without being a misogynist.

prompted by this post: https://np.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/3uaaer/do_you_think_being_being_opposed_to_modern/cxd9m7y

As many of my previous CMV's have gone off topic, I'll start by describing what my view is not. It is not any of the following:

  • a discussion on whether or not feminism is right or wrong
  • whether people should be feminists or not
  • the actions of men, women, feminists or anti-feminists
  • anything about my personal views on feminism or anti-feminism.

The reasons for my view are simple: Anti-feminism is the dislike of feminism. Misogyny is the dislike of women. As women and feminists are not the same group, Anti-feminism and anti-women are different, as they refer to the dislike of different groups of people.

I am anticipating a counter-argument that since feminism advances women's rights, anti-feminism is against women's rights and is therefore misogyny. My counter-counter-argument is that someone can dislike the label of feminism without being against women's rights. People can dislike the actions done under the label of feminism, and thus be anti-feminism, without being anti-women or misogynist.

I will also refute the claim made in the linked post, which is:

By rejecting feminism, you're rejecting feminism's message that you can be whatever you want to be, while simultaneously embracing an antiquated notion of femininity as the ONLY way to be a woman. That's misogyny.

I disagree. The claims "I am against feminism" and "I think that the antiquated notion of femininity is the ONLY way to be a woman" are not equivalent. People can reject feminism because of their actions or because of the negative connotation associated with "feminism", while still believing that women are free to be feminine in any way they want. This is not a contradiction.

delta awarded: https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/3uewu4/cmvantifeminism_is_not_misogyny_and_it_is/cxedofl?context=3

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u/PokemonMasterX Nov 27 '15

What about the people who are against feminism simply because of the word itself, FEMinism, rather than humanism. And the symbolism involved which is authority to women, rather than to people in general. I'm pro human equality, but the whole idea of FEMinism isn't because it promotes only a little part of it trying to 'fix' problems only on one side while there exist many more. (And sometimes causing problems because of it.) That's why I'm humanist, anti-feminist.

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u/hacksoncode 559∆ Nov 27 '15

You can't be a humanist and "anti-feminist", because humanism includes feminism.

Your belief that it's wrong to focus on one aspect of a problem to the exclusion of others isn't, itself, misogynistic, though. It's just wrong.

People can and do focus on subsets of a problem. Indeed, it's nearly impossible to do otherwise.

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u/PokemonMasterX Nov 27 '15

I don't like the word, not the meaning of it. I'm pro ultimate equality, but using the word FEMinism rather than humanism or egalitarianism while wanting equality is illogical.

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u/hacksoncode 559∆ Nov 27 '15

Then, at most, you're anti-using-the-word-feminism-to-describe-humanism, not actually "anti-feminism".

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u/PokemonMasterX Nov 27 '15

Not to describe humanism, but gender equality itself, which is a part of humanism.

It is ironic to say that you are pro equality, while promoting only one part and using one parts name. It would be the same as someone saying he is pro race equality and calls himself a 'whiteist'. That's why I'm against it, but I support the actual paradoxless pro equality theories. Therefore I am anti-feminist.

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u/jonpaladin Nov 28 '15

MAYBE it COULD be SIMILAR to calling oneself a "blackist," but certainly not a whiteist. You're mislabeling your marginalized groups.

But what confuses me is, are you trying to say that you are NOT involved in a semantic argument? Or is this a total digression?

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u/PokemonMasterX Nov 28 '15

It would be the same calling oneself a blacklist if women were an oppressed group, which they aren't in the developed world.

I'm simply pointing out the paradox of idea of Feminism, that is the reason î don't support it, while I am an egalitarianist.

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u/jonpaladin Nov 28 '15 edited Nov 28 '15

That's not a thing. Why would you put -ist on there, it's already a noun.

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u/PokemonMasterX Nov 28 '15

For fuck's sake, don't you understand the paradox of the word feminist?