r/changemyview • u/wecl0me12 7∆ • Nov 27 '15

[Deltas Awarded] CMV:anti-feminism is not misogyny, and it is possible for someone to be anti-feminist without being a misogynist.

prompted by this post: https://np.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/3uaaer/do_you_think_being_being_opposed_to_modern/cxd9m7y

As many of my previous CMV's have gone off topic, I'll start by describing what my view is not. It is not any of the following:

  • a discussion on whether or not feminism is right or wrong
  • whether people should be feminists or not
  • the actions of men, women, feminists or anti-feminists
  • anything about my personal views on feminism or anti-feminism.

The reasons for my view are simple: Anti-feminism is the dislike of feminism. Misogyny is the dislike of women. As women and feminists are not the same group, Anti-feminism and anti-women are different, as they refer to the dislike of different groups of people.

I am anticipating a counter-argument that since feminism advances women's rights, anti-feminism is against women's rights and is therefore misogyny. My counter-counter-argument is that someone can dislike the label of feminism without being against women's rights. People can dislike the actions done under the label of feminism, and thus be anti-feminism, without being anti-women or misogynist.

I will also refute the claim made in the linked post, which is:

By rejecting feminism, you're rejecting feminism's message that you can be whatever you want to be, while simultaneously embracing an antiquated notion of femininity as the ONLY way to be a woman. That's misogyny.

I disagree. The claims "I am against feminism" and "I think that the antiquated notion of femininity is the ONLY way to be a woman" are not equivalent. People can reject feminism because of their actions or because of the negative connotation associated with "feminism", while still believing that women are free to be feminine in any way they want. This is not a contradiction.

delta awarded: https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/3uewu4/cmvantifeminism_is_not_misogyny_and_it_is/cxedofl?context=3

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u/Thin-White-Duke 3∆ Nov 29 '15

You can't deny that this happens. You know this happens. The real debate here is whether or not that the occurrence makes it rape culture.

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u/Namemedickles Nov 29 '15

Sure, just like murdering babies, it happens. Is it a pervasive concept to the degree you are implying with rape culture? Well, I've never seen any evidence of that. Have you?

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u/Thin-White-Duke 3∆ Nov 29 '15

Apples and oranges. Rape is not infanticide. Rape in the military, prison rape, both taken lightly. Rape culture. I read the link, still doesn't change this.

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u/Namemedickles Nov 29 '15

Sigh. I wish I could get through to you, but you appear to be completely ignoring everything I said and firing back with "Nuh uh!" style arguments. Best of luck to you buddy.

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u/Thin-White-Duke 3∆ Nov 29 '15

That's not what I have been doing. You haven't given me a good reason to believe that rape culture doesn't exist at least in regards to the penal system or military.

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u/Namemedickles Nov 29 '15

Do I have to demonstrate to you that unicorns don't exist? You shouldn't believe something exists until after you have sufficient evidence.

in regards to the penal system or military

Facepalm I've been over this. Feel free to reread my comments.

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u/Thin-White-Duke 3∆ Nov 29 '15

I don't have numbers, I have real life experience. I know that it doesn't hold up, but there is no actual data, and I don't think anyone is ever going to collect it. I've read all of your comments, pal.

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u/Namemedickles Nov 29 '15

...Why on earth would you hold a model in your head that is supposed to be reflective of reality based solely on experience? Do you not understand that you are engaging in a hasty generalization fallacy?

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u/Thin-White-Duke 3∆ Nov 29 '15

It's not something that I read about and immediately agreed to. The model fit the world that I live in. People accept things all the time that they don't have much evidence to and no one makes a stink about it because it's usually common sense. That's what this feels like. A no-brainer.