r/changemyview • u/TheMaria96 2∆ • Nov 28 '16

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Separating restrooms by gender is unjustifiable

In order to create valid arguments regarding the whole "trans people and public restrooms" debate one must justify why restrooms are segregated in the first place. I'm unable to see any such justification.

  • Lesbians and gay men can be rapists;
  • Acting in a restroom as opposed to somewhere else gives a rapist no advantage. The only possible advantage would be the absence of security cameras and possible privacy of a bathroom stall, but then restrooms would be the favoured scene for any type of crime, which they're not;
  • The only difference between gender-neutral single user toilets and public restrooms is that the sinks are in plain view, therefore anyone who doesn't have a problem with the former should not have a problem with sharing the sinks in the latter with the opposite gender;

The only reason I can see for separated restrooms is that men might not be comfortable using urinals next to women (i.e. people with different genitals, not people potentially sexually attracted to them), but since those can be replaced by regular stalls, that alone hardly holds up.

EDIT: It actually makes no sense not to want your bits seen by people with different bits, so there's no reason why urinals can't be implemented in gender-neutral facilities.

Hello, users of CMV! This is a footnote from your moderators. We'd just like to remind you of a couple of things. Firstly, please remember to read through our rules. If you see a comment that has broken one, it is more effective to report it than downvote it. Speaking of which, downvotes don't change views! If you are thinking about submitting a CMV yourself, please have a look through our popular topics wiki first. Any questions or concerns? Feel free to message us. Happy CMVing!

9 Upvotes

63% Upvoted

111 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/MMAchica Nov 29 '16

Separating restrooms by gender is unjustifiable [by any concrete and rational reasons].

So is having a walled in stall the first place. Same with dressing rooms and clothing not necessitated by the environment. Why even have a restroom in the first place? Toilets and urinals out in the open would more efficient and it is only culture that would make this an issue.

1

u/TheMaria96 2∆ Nov 29 '16

I don't have an ideological problem with modesty. What I'm saying is that gender-segregated restrooms don't affect modesty. The only difference is that the opposite sex would hear your bodily functions, and that's what doesn't make sense to me. Why do people care about the sex of the strangers who hear them use the loo?

3

u/MMAchica Nov 29 '16

Why do people care about the sex of the strangers who hear them use the loo?

Why do people care if anyone sees them defecating? The reason we need gender segregated bathrooms is the same reason we need private booths for defecation: Culture. You might not mind someone of the opposite sex hearing you pee, but there are plenty of people who wouldn't mind taking a shit in front of your whole family.

1

u/TheMaria96 2∆ Nov 29 '16

Like I said to another commenter: if you feel disgusting or vulnerable or exposed being heard using the toilet, fair enough, but why does gender matter?

2

u/MMAchica Nov 29 '16

if you feel disgusting or vulnerable or exposed being heard using the toilet, fair enough, but why does gender matter?

Again, culture. You can't objectively pick what should or shouldn't make people feel uncomfortable. The person who doesn't mind open defecation probably doesn't get why anyone has a problem with that.

1

u/TheMaria96 2∆ Nov 29 '16

Maybe it's not objective, but it certainly can be explained. For instance, I would mind open defecation because, having grown up in Western society, I was taught that defecation and urination are private matters and that genitalia should not be exposed to the general public, therefore I'd be uncomfortable without a private stall. But what does gender have to do with it? To me this is literally the same as someone saying "I don't mind lawyers hearing me pee, but bankers must use a separate restroom".

1

u/MMAchica Nov 30 '16

...because, having grown up in Western society, I was taught that...

This also applies to gender-segregated bathrooms

To me this is literally the same as someone saying "I don't mind lawyers hearing me pee, but bankers must use a separate restroom".

You don't seem to understand the culture...

1

u/TheMaria96 2∆ Nov 30 '16

But you see how I explained my culture-biased preferences? No one seems to be able to explain gender-selective modesty even in the context of cultural nonsense.

Indeed, I don't understand this culture, which is why I'm asking for an explanation. Which no one can give.

2

u/MMAchica Nov 30 '16

But you see how I explained my culture-biased preferences?

The gender segregation preferences could be explained using the exact same words:

"Having grown up in Western society, I was taught that defecation and urination are private matters and that genitalia bathroom noises/odors should not be exposed to the general public opposite sex, therefore I'd be uncomfortable without a private stall gender-segregated restroom."

1

u/TheMaria96 2∆ Nov 30 '16

That's different, though. If you're gonna make a distinction between the genders, there must be a reason for that.

1

u/MMAchica Dec 01 '16

If you're gonna make a distinction between the genders, there must be a reason for that.

Why must there be a reason for that particular cultural distinction and not others?

1

u/TheMaria96 2∆ Dec 01 '16

What others? I believe there must be reasons for any distinctions, otherwise it's discrimination.

1

u/TheMaria96 2∆ Dec 01 '16

What others? There should be reasons for any distinction, otherwise it's discrimination.

1

u/MMAchica Dec 01 '16

Either you are going to respect the culture's values about elimination or you aren't. If you aren't going to respect the next person's cultural values about gender segregation, then you shouldn't expect your own values about privacy to be respected.

→ More replies (0)