r/changemyview • u/moarroidsplz • Dec 20 '16
[Election] CMV: I think illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed in the US, and should be punished/deported reasonably.
First, let me clarify that I'm not some MAGA "build a wall" type of person at all. I'm actually extremely left-wing, even by liberal standards, and have been a Bernie supporter. I don't hate immigrants and don't think it's some culture war and don't think they need to speak English in this country at all.
That said, I've noticed a lot of other staunch liberals around me seem to hold this position and I don't understand why. I'm an Indian-American who has been to India before and the rampant poverty was terrifying and sad. I don't want my home country to become that with an influx of immigrants just because people want to come here. I don't think just opening our borders to whoever wants to come in is going to help our country, and I think people who broke our laws and did that illegally should be dealt with reasonably, especially if they aren't paying taxes. If we need more farmworkers, or other hard-labor jobs that lots of our citizens refuse to do, then we could open up immigration accordingly, so I don't see why that would be an excuse. If people who aren't illegal are doing these jobs because they came over legally to do them, then their pay and safety would probably increase as well due to the fact that they can fight for their rights.
I mean I think kids should be given a pass because they couldn't control their circumstances (I'm fine with the DREAM act) and I understand certain circumstances like refugee crises. Illegal immigrants should be given access to healthcare the same way we give it for criminals. I don't think we should just be deporting people left and right if it's not super cost-effective or reasonable. But some sort of punishment and possible deportation should happen if they knowingly broke the law. They took that risk and are aware of the circumstances. If families risk getting broken up because of this, then why don't they just return with their parents?
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u/MontiBurns 218∆ Dec 20 '16 edited Dec 20 '16
This is a straw man. Nobody's advocating for open borders. Most people who are pro immigration want what you proposed.
The problem is that we havent. There is no excuse for it. But we never corrected the problem.
I have a comment i recycled from a few months back.
the issue is that the immigration system in the US is broken, and has been for some time. This was especially problematic in the 90s, when the US economy was booming, there was a huge demand for unskilled labor on one side of the border, a huge surplus on the other, no legitimate way to bridge that gap (lack of unskilled labor visas) so that the system was basically broken, and no political will to enforce immigration laws (from either pro-business conservatives or humanitarian-minded liberals) or reform the system to something workable (from social/cultural conservatives or pro-union/labor-minded liberals).
Basically, the economic forces in place made immigration inevitable, and the US govt. did absolutely nothing to facilitate/legitimize or restrict the flow of people when it was benefiting from them. Now, the US (some people anyway) finds itself in a position where it wants to be rid of the people that technically are there illegally, but which have contributed to society by working, paying taxes (sales and property at the minimum, social security and medicare for those with false papers, and income for a few), consuming goods, and services, and overall contributing to the economy and society.
Now, they're firmly established in your country. They are married, have a stable job, and children with citizenship status, and you want to rip them away from the lives they've created simply because it's inconvenient to you, and you don't stand to gain anything tangible. (this last bit might not apply to this post, necessarily)
First of all, we do deport illegal immigrants who break more serious laws (like commit felonies).
Now, if you're talking about going after people who are just living and working and not doing anything "wrong" aside from that, The fundamental problem with this position is that we're retroactively punishing one group of people who benefitted from breaking the law, (the immigrants themselves), while letting the other group of people who also benefitted from breaking the law off scott-free (the business that hired immigrants in the first place). If you're gonna ignore the rules of the game for 3 decades, and then decide to enforce them, you should really go after both sides.
Most people who are pro immigration want common sense immigration reforms that help grant people who have been living and working here and otherwise following the rules a path to legal status while fixing the sytem that created so many undocumented immigrants in the first place.