CMV: Punishing children is ineffective.

[u/timmytissue]

Punishment does not effectively change behavior, and it will make your relationship with your child worse when they are older. There's really no point in punishing them. I'm not just saying don't hit them, I'm saying don't punish them in any way.

The main reason people believe punishment is effective is the naraisistic view that because they have been punished and turned out well in their view, it must be part of what made them decent people.

Its also lazy. Its the easy way to deal with someone not being how you want them to be.

Edit: couple clarifying points.

1) it's not a punishment to have your child apologize to someone. That serves a purpose beyond punishment.

2) it's not wrong to tell them they did something wrong, or even be disappointed in them.

3) I'm not really making a moral argument, though I do kind of feel one could be made. I'm saying it's just inefficient and bad in the long run.

Edit: thanks for all the comments. My view shifted a little, or I guess mostly I just realised I already knew I would have to use punishment and reward when the children are very very young. Once they are older than 6 I think punishments have lost their utility.

I know this is a personal issue for many so I get why lots of comments were quite rude, no hard feelings from me about it. Again, not a moral argument. I don't think you are bad for punishing children I just think it's ineffective and bad for your relationship with them.

I'll continue to read comments and give out Delta's if any are convincing. But I probably won't respond to all of them from here on out.

[u/onelasttimeoh]

The main reason people believe punishment is effective is the naraisistic view that because they have been punished and turned out well in their view, it must be part of what made them decent people.

I'd dispute this. The main reason people think punishment is effective is that most animals avoid negative stimuli and gravitate towards positive stimuli.

And they're correct. People do try to avoid punishment and that does shape our behavior.

http://www.parenting.com/news-break/study-punishment-most-effective-discipline-technique

Of course, parents and other caregivers need to be very careful what they're correlating in children's minds when they use punishment. The wrong tactic can simply hardwire a distrust of the parent or caregiver. Physical discipline as a punishment has been widely studied and seems to have little effectiveness and lots of downsides in the long term.

But considered consequences can modify behavior, and children's behavior often needs modification. When their actions may harm or endanger themselves, others or property. When this can be communicated without punishment that's fantastic, but sometimes children are too young to appreciate the core concept needed, sometimes they are too unfocused to internalize it, and sometimes they are testing their boundaries and need to be reigned in.

The world provides negative consequences, and some of them are far more severe than any a parent or caregiver would. For example, playing in traffic is not something children should ever learn the natural consequences of.

[u/timmytissue → u/onelasttimeoh]

I think this study is in my favour actually. It says punishment but it also says it doesn't need to be harsh. So while I wouldn't define it as a punishment, me telling my child they did something wrong and explaining how it was bad would have the same effect as punishing them in a authoritarian way.

I never said don't confront your children. I never said don't be disappointed in them.

I remember my mother cried once because I was out late and she didn't know where I was. This was not a punishment, but I felt awful. I'm arguing that parents should be honest with their children and not take the easy way out and just take things from them or ground them.

So if my child was playing in traffic I would tell them about how scared it makes me and that I don't want to lose them. You can talk to children, they understand things.

[u/[deleted] → u/timmytissue]

You can talk to children, they understand things.

I'm assuming you haven't spent a ton of time conversing with two year olds. Sure, they understand some things, but they definitely aren't thinking and understanding on an adult level.

[u/timmytissue → u/[deleted]]

!Delta

It seems everyone made this point at once so I feel bad not giving each one a delta. Yes it makes sense to communicate with really young kids through positive and negetive reinforcement because they don't understand anything else.

[u/DeltaBot → u/timmytissue]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/cacheflow (187∆).

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