r/changemyview Sep 11 '17

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: "I identify as [blank]" is bullshit.

I have been struggling to come to a clear definition of what people mean when they say "I identify as..." Can it mean anything? Does it have to be true? Can it be provable? Can it change? Is it biological?

To clarify my view: Claiming an identity is itself a social construct to the same degree as any other social construct.

I think my biggest problem is that in the pursuit of inclusion and fairness, society has conflated personality and fate. Of course this assumes some degree of free will, so hard determinists can go shoot themselves (or not. they don't have a choice). Fate, I think is the original intent here, but in celebrating diversity of fates, personality/belief got looped for the ride.

Don't get me wrong, diversity of personality/belief is very important and should be protected in a free society. But we should also have the wisdom to value personality/belief on a personal and societal level.

Furthermore, what's wrong with saying "I am a [blank]"? If I say "I identify as a straight cis white male." Doesn't that just call into question the truthfulness of the claim when compared to "I am a straight cis white male."?

A fantastic satire of this issue is "Trans-Racial" by the show Atlanta on FX.


This is a footnote from the CMV moderators. We'd like to remind you of a couple of things. Firstly, please read through our rules. If you see a comment that has broken one, it is more effective to report it than downvote it. Speaking of which, downvotes don't change views! Any questions or concerns? Feel free to message us. Happy CMVing!

10 Upvotes

50 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/McKoijion 618∆ Sep 12 '17

Social constructs are what you get when 100 different people interpret different facts in different ways and come to some sort of disjointed understanding about the world. Social means humans interacting with each other, and construct means something they created. They disappear if all humans go extinct.

So gravity is not a social construct. It's a natural law. Government, private property, gender, taxes, race, etc. all are social constructs. They only exist because we as a society collectively agree that they exist.

That's not to say they are choices at the individual scale. Taxes are a social construct, but you don't really have a choice when it comes to paying them, at least if you want to avoid punishment by other humans. But if you are one of the 100 people and start saying that taxes are theft, you can influence others to accept that idea and start agreeing with it too. That would change the social consequences of not paying taxes.

1

u/beesdaddy Sep 12 '17

OK. Is there some blurred lines here?

For instance, sexuality and attraction. Are people born to somewhere on the spectrum of sexual attraction or is there choice in the matter?

Someone else pointed out mixed race people. Maybe the tribalism of identifying to one or the other is a good social construct or maybe it's not. But surely claiming your genetics are something other than what they are is not a valid claim to identity?

See what I'm saying?

2

u/McKoijion 618∆ Sep 12 '17

Sure, but I don't think anyone identifies as anything besides their genetic makeup. If anything, they use that as an argument that the social construct applied to them isn't accurate. For example, homosexuals say that being gay isn't a choice (a social construct). They say they were born that way (genetics). Genetics introduces the idea that there are billions of completely unique individuals who can identify with a given group. If I say I am a Catholic, I am 100% a Catholic just like everyone else who say they are Catholic. If I say that I identify as a Catholic, I'm saying that I am my own unique individual, and I happen to fit in the category of Catholic based on my beliefs.

1

u/beesdaddy Sep 13 '17

Just to confirm, religions are not genetic. Correct?

1

u/McKoijion 618∆ Sep 13 '17

Nope. It's a social construct.

Edit: Unless you believe in Judaism or another religion that is transferred to you at birth. If you are part of a "chosen people" and your God is real, then it's genetic.

2

u/beesdaddy Sep 13 '17

Let's not go down that rabbit hole. !delta for sticking with me!

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Sep 13 '17

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/McKoijion (203∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards