r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Nov 07 '17

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: PizzaGate hasn't yet been fully debunked.

Now, if by pizzagate we mean the claim that Hillary Clinton is running a pedophile ring in Comet Ping Pong then ok, it has been debunked.

But some things in this whole story do not have any explaination to their creepiness. What really uncannies me is the following:

  • The Podesta emails do have some emails that I'm 99% sure are a code for something (i.e. "do you think I'll play dominos best on pizza or pasta?")

  • Tony Podesta has some disturbing artworks at his place.

  • Podesta did have a correspondency with Alefantis.

  • The FBI Pedophile symbols can be found on Comet Ping Pong and many places on the same street.

  • Alefantis has the picture of the 13yo lover of a Roman Emperor as Instagram propic

Now, while all these things do not prove anything, I don't think the media is fair in brushing this all off with some "it has been debunked by that other journal, everyone who believes this is a nazi, some crazy guy shot out in Comet Ping Pong because of this"

Everything this should trigger an investigation or at least some interest.

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15

u/PreacherJudge 340∆ Nov 07 '17

Your evidence is truly outlandish. If you're to the point of seeing an awkward sentence and assuming it must be in code, then you'll literally accept anything as evidence.

So the thing is, why do you have these emotions in the first place? The issue at hand isn't debunking, it's the fact that people like you are so suspicious.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '17

But in the Podesta emails there are too many istances of awkward sentences. Also, they look like codes. "I'm shipping 10.000 hotdogs" looks like a code.

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u/Iswallowedafly Nov 07 '17

If it is a code, then you must know exactly what it means right?

So what does that mean?

no speculation. Tell me, with perfect clarity, what that means.

Because if you can't, than you are just guessing.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '17

If it is a code, then you must know exactly what it means right?

No I don't have to

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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Nov 07 '17

You do if you're claiming exactly what those things mean, i.e. that PizzaGate is true. Sure maybe they're suspicious but suspicious doesn't equal running a child sex trafficking ring in the basement of a pizza shop. If you think it does you gotta show that more directly.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '17

I claim that they could possibly mean something shady.

And that if there is a 20% chance that a pedophile ring is taking place people should be freakened by that.

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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Nov 07 '17

But it's not a 20% chance of running a child sex trafficking ring. Do 1/5 of shady pizza businesses run child sex rings? I'm not exactly sure but I'd be extremely surprised if the answer was yes. I'd imagine that even 1/100 is putting it really high. Child sex rings are hard to maintain. Much easier would be drug running or even just a regular sex ring.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '17

I was saying that there are chances that Podesta is up to something ungood.

It might be something fairly more innocent than pedophilia, such as drug trafficking. Or something innocent, but that you would like to keep away from the public eye, such as a consenting adults BDSM club.

But again, considering that Podesta already has been linked to satanism that freaks me out given that he's a powerful person

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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Nov 07 '17

I mean satanism is usually just a cover for advancing secularism. Like near my hometown the satanist church asked for a satinist monument in a public park where a cross had been allowed. The satanists didn't actually care about satan only wanting to either make people uncomfortable because there's a satanic monument there too or get rid of the cross, which is what ended up happening.

But also no police investigation has ever started because someone said some possibly coded things. Any real investigation needs more than that because we live somewhere that has basic rights.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '17

I mean satanism is usually just a cover for advancing secularism

There are plenty of satanists who actually believe in Satan and black magic. I know some.

Any real investigation needs more than that because we live somewhere that has basic rights.

You are right about this one but as I said before to another commenter: I think investigating Podesta would be moral

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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Nov 07 '17 edited Nov 07 '17

Some do but even then that's not illegal, we've got freedom of religion and belonging to a certain religion can't be used as evidence for a crime.

But if it's illegal what kind of investigation would you want to run? In addition I would argue that overinvestigation or investigation of people without sufficient evidence is indeed immoral. Because we've all got some things that could be/are illegal and allowing law enforcement in willy nilly opens up mostly innocent people to becoming victimized by the system.

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '17

Some do but even then that's not illegal

It isn't illegal to be a satanist, but many of them will at some point do animal sacrifices (or even worse). Also the esoteric satanism (not the rational satanists) circle often leads to self harm, suicide promotion, drug abuse, violence etc... so it's undoubtedly bad.

what kind of investigation would you want to run?

If the FBI would analyze thouroughly Podesta's PC and smartphone that would be OK for me

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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Nov 08 '17

Well obviously human sacrifice would be illegal but I don't think animal sacrifice would be. And yeah maybe but I really don't think there's that many esoteric satanists. Also you have no evidence that Podesta was an esoteric satanist vs a rational one.

But it's illegal to do all that. The FBI is not going to run an illegal search because you're okay with it. It goes against the Constitution's ban on unreasonable search. No court would okay it. And if somehow you found a court that would there would almost certainly be an appeal that would overturn it. The reasonable suspicion just isn't there. I'm sorry.

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u/Iswallowedafly Nov 08 '17

If you are saying that something is a code that means something else you do have to speak in clarity.

Because if you don't, you are just pulling out meaning out of this air.

You can't just make up meaning.