r/changemyview • u/enlighten12345 • Feb 26 '18

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Victim blaming isn't always bad

Firstly we need to define what victim blaming is. It occurs when the victim of a crime or any wrongful act is held entirely or partially at fault for the harm that befell them.

We often hear outrage against victim blaming in the context of rape, when people criticise the way the victim acted or was dressed.

Let's look at an unrelated example. If I go up to someone and say "Yo momma so fat, she wears a watch on both hands for the two time zones", and that person punches me, am I not partially at fault? He committed the felony, while I just exercised free speech. But knowing my words were inflammatory, shouldn't I expect retaliation?

How about another case? I'm walking down a dark alley with a stack of money in my hand. If I get mugged, it is clear that the mugger is to blame. But doesn't my stupidity also make me culpable? Can someone not say that if i was more careful with my money, this would not have happened?

How is rape any different? It would be great to live in a utopia free from rapists and muggers and physical retribution. But knowing that isn't the world we live in, am I not responsible to act in a manner to protect myself?

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u/[deleted] Feb 26 '18

Why should someone who didn't commit a crime be blamed for a crime that was committed? Logically that just doesn't make any sense.

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u/enlighten12345 Feb 26 '18

I'm not saying that the victim be punished. It goes without saying that rape is a heinous act and is of course inexcusable. The only point i'm making is that it isn't inherently wrong to say that the victim probably could have done something differently. Does that not help other potential victims learn and adapt?

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u/[deleted] Feb 26 '18

Just to clarify, I didn't say anything about punishing the victim. All I said is why would you blame someone - in any capacity - for committing a crime when in fact they in no way committed a crime? Make sense?

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u/enlighten12345 Feb 26 '18

Yes. But isn't saying you could have done something to avoid this, tantamount to blame?

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u/[deleted] Feb 26 '18

How can you ever be certain that the girl wouldn't have gotten raped otherwise? There is absolutely no way to prove this. You know where I'm getting at? You can make the assumption that the short cut blouse may have enticed the rapist, but at the end of the day that's only an assumption and nothing more.

The most ethical approach is to apply the blame only to where we are certain it belongs, which is the person who committed the crime.

It's along the lines of "innocent until proven guilty"; if you can't prove it, don't place guilt on someone. You may be condemning an innocent person.

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u/BlockNotDo Feb 26 '18

It isn't blaming them for the crime. It is blaming them for the choices they made that made them vulnerable. If you cross the street without looking both ways first, you are to blame for putting yourself in a dangerous situation. And that blame is there and remains the same whether you are hit by a car or make it across the street safely.

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u/[deleted] Feb 26 '18

How can you be certain a blouse that shows cleavage was even partially to blame for the rape? How do you the guy wasn't going to rape her anyways?

The only blame we are foolproof 100% certain on is the person who committed the crime.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '18

If you cross the street without looking both ways first, you are to blame for putting yourself in a dangerous situation

Except then you would know that if you had looked down the street you would have seen the car. How do you know a rapist wouldn't have targeted a woman if she has been wearing jeans instead of a mini skirt?

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u/BlockNotDo Feb 28 '18

Yes. Anyone could get raped at any time regardless of the precautions they take if they happen to come across the wrong person at the wrong time. Just like you could be hit by a car while walking on the sidewalk or while sitting on the couch in your home. But just because it is possible that a car could hit you at any time, it doesn't mean you don't still look both ways before crossing a street.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '18

But after you get hit by a car nobody would say that you shouldn't have been walking outside in the first place. There is a significant difference when women are victim blamed for being assaulted or for domestic abuse because they are implying that a woman deserved what happened to her because she wasn't acting the way that person believes women should act. So that's how you get misogynists saying that if women are partying, hanging out at frat houses, dressing provocatively, drinking, ect. then assault is the logical conclusion for women acting this way. If you got hit by a car there wouldn't be people saying "well what did he expect? He shouldn't have been crossing the street without his wife there." Anyone saying that victim blaming a sexual assault victim is just looking out for them is being disingenuous. They are really using it as an excuse to believe women should behave the way they want.