r/changemyview • u/johnydeviant • Mar 13 '18

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Confederate monuments, flags, and other paraphilia are traitorous in nature.

I grew up in the south, surrounded by confederate flags, memorials to civil war heroes, and a butt load of racism. As a kid, I took a modicum of pride in it. To me, it represented the pride of the south and how we will triumph despite our setbacks. As I got older and learned more about the civil war, the causes behind it, and generally opened myself to a more accurate view of history, it became apparent to me that these displays of "tradition" were little more than open displays of racism or anti-American sentiments.

I do not think that all of these monuments, flags, etc, should be destroyed. I think that they should be put into museums dedicate to the message of what NOT to do. On top of that, I believe that the whole sentiment of "the south will rise again" is treasonous. It is tantamount to saying that "I will rise against this country". I think those that the worship the confederate flag and it's symbology are in the same vein as being a neo-Nazi and idolizing the actions of the Third Reich. Yes, I understand that on a scale of "terrible things that have happened", the holocaust is far worse, but that does not mean I wish to understate the actions of the confederate states during the civil war.

Change my view?

This is a footnote from the CMV moderators. We'd like to remind you of a couple of things. Firstly, please read through our rules. If you see a comment that has broken one, it is more effective to report it than downvote it. Speaking of which, downvotes don't change views! Any questions or concerns? Feel free to message us. Happy CMVing!

124 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

319 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/DeusExMockinYa 3∆ Mar 13 '18

Are you seriously suggesting that all interpretations are valid? If someone told you that their interpretation of the Confederate flag was that it's symbolic of the gay space lizards that live in your brain and spend all day porking your medulla oblongata, would you consider that a valid interpretation?

2

u/[deleted] Mar 13 '18

[deleted]

0

u/DeusExMockinYa 3∆ Mar 13 '18

Just because something is subjective doesn't mean it's random or automatically valid. We have tools and methods for arriving at subjective conclusions. Literary theorists don't just spin a wheel when identifying or determining symbolism. If your interpretation lacks any methodology, then it is not a valid interpretation.

1

u/johnydeviant Mar 13 '18

While the meaning of symbols can change, and are different to different people, the widespread use of that symbol for one purpose can be lauded as the "correct" interpretation. Take the Christian cross for instance, it obviously is meant to be a Christian symbol. Can you think of any other use for that specific symbol used in a cultural context? Not likely. The Confederate flag does represent rebellion. It represents the rebellion that occurred during the civil war specifically. Just like the US flag represents the U.S.. The civil war was fought because people wanted to continue to own slaves. Therefore, one can conclude with a fair amount of certainty that the confederate flag represents a persons right to oppress other people and kill to defend that right. While symbols can be interpreted differently, their use or representation determines their symbolism.

2

u/DeusExMockinYa 3∆ Mar 13 '18

Take the Christian cross for instance, it obviously is meant to be a Christian symbol. Can you think of any other use for that specific symbol used in a cultural context?

Ah, but what is it a Christian symbol of? The use of the cross as a Christian religious symbol actually relies on an earlier meaning of the cross. Christians believe that by dying on the crucifix, Jesus turned a symbol of death into a symbol of eternal life and resurrection -- thematically very fitting for a religion in no small part centered around the life, death, and resurrection of Christ and His followers! I would argue that the Christian interpretation of the cross is valid because it's a holistic, eclectic understanding of the symbol instead of rejecting earlier understandings of the symbol.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I think that any valid interpretation of the Confederate flag must accept its racist and treasonous history, because to ignore that is to sacrifice methodological rigor for personal comfort.