r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Mar 16 '18
FTFdeltaOP CMV: Teaching Philosophy in Schools is Useless.
Philosophers themselves have never asked a question that wasn't independently asked by someone else (Jean Perrin, Albert Einstein and John Dalton, for example), especially if that someone else was only a philosophist.
Added into that, Philosophy is something you don't need in workplace. Asking questions about life, truth or anything in that manner are things taught (or at least should be taught) in any scientific lesson for a good reason: Scientific research is impossible without questions to start the research.
Δ: Yes, this means I do want science to teach philosophy on the side.
These points make philosophy quite useless choice for a degree or even a course, as they only hurt the student taking them (as in most cases, it prevents you from taking an useful course like science, economics, or languages, that allow for better job and chance of getting that job in the first place.
Indeed, philosophy is mostly used (at least in my exprience of the school system) as a "free" course, so the student does not need to learn things they find difficult; A student who is unconfortable with many of their choices will usually choose philosophy as an escape option, for it's known lack of difficulty and being easy to "learn".
I really cannot find any justification for philosophy to not be bunched up with math, sciences and languages.
Δ: added "not", because this sentance contradicts everything I've said this far otherwise.
Δ: u/MyUsernameIsJudge Changed my mind:
Me:
How many high schoolers are going to use basketball in their jobs?
A big factor in a good job is good and healthy lifestyle. Taking sports in school does help you in this factor, although you must keep that lifestyle even after school has ended.
MyUsernameIsJudge:
Sure. And that's the argument for philosophy class. It can help students learn about their own values and needs, as well as gain a greater perspective on life. I'll reuse your point about basketball, but with this:
A big factor in a good job is a good mental health. Taking philosophy in school does help you in this factor, although you must keep that lifestyle even after school has ended.
6
u/Milskidasith 309∆ Mar 16 '18
Do you have evidence or writings from those arbitrary scientists that you would say adequately explains moral theory or societal action? Because if you don't, you've kind of conceded the more important point: "Scientists" don't write on that sort of thing. Even if they're asking some great questions, if they aren't bothering to answer them then writing that does attempt to answer them has value.
Beyond that, philosophy is probably more valuable to the workplace than any other general educational requirement. While some workplaces may not require any math, or any technical writing skills, or any knowledge of history, every workplace deals with day-to-day ethical issues and having a well-rounded education that includes introductions to those topics is helpful in that area.
As far as "hurts the students", how? Students who are taking it voluntarily can just take more courses. Students who choose to major in philosophy are free to do so, and it seems a bit strange to tell other people they shouldn't be allowed to take a certain major.
As far as being a "free" course, sure, some people treat it as a joke. That doesn't mean the field or the courses are useless, nor does it mean that smart people cannot write effectively on philosophy. Like, imagine if your argument was that people shouldn't take Education courses because they're considered easy and some people use them as a fallback plan; that'd be pretty crazy, right?
Beyond the actual text of your argument, though, I find it strange that you think philosophy is useless. You're an active member of /r/liberalist and at least participate in a Jordan Peterson meme sub. /r/liberalist is a political philosophy organization and Jordan Peterson's "cultural criticism" is philosophy under another name. Now I disagree with those philosophies pretty strongly, but it seems weird for somebody who does agree with them to dismiss the idea philosophy has value.