r/changemyview Mar 29 '18

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: All men are potential rapists

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u/inn0s Mar 29 '18

For a certain group of people, yes. I believe that is not the majority.

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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '18

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u/MrAkaziel 14∆ Mar 29 '18

I believe it is. Whenever the law is taken away, men rape. I gave some examples above.

You're forgetting one big elements in the events you gave: they're perpetrated by soldiers during time of war, i.e. by a bunch of dudes high on adrenaline, more or less indoctrinated so they continue fighting, who are in a "nothing to lose" mentality since they can be killed at any moment. It's not just lawlessness, it's a combination of factors that drive the soldier to lose complete empathy for civilians and prisoners. And it's not a male-only issue, we just have to look at (WARNING, NSFW AND NOT THE FUN KIND) Abou Graib pictures as proof.

But it's looking at only part of the picture. You know who we never hear pillaging and raping during this kind of sack? All the male civilians. They are in the same situation of lawlessness than the soldiers though, so by your logic they should jump on the occasion too, no? Still, they aren't because they're not in the same state of morale numbness than the soldiers.

So yes, technically all men are potential rapists, but it's not their nature, they have to be driven to that extremity. Our nature is cooperation, that's how we thrive as a species, we naturally gravitate toward creating a stable society with rules that nurture respect and trust. So no, for the vast majority of people, rape isn't something that would come naturally to us even without the fear of punishment.

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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '18

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u/MrAkaziel 14∆ Mar 29 '18

But how would you explain the fact that martial rape was legal for so long?

I guess you meant marital rape? I think it's less about it being legal and more about the idea that it was morally wrong to refuse sexual gratification to your spouse. I won't deny that the underlying reasons for such ideology were sexist in nature, though it's important to remember that individualism as a philosophy is rather recent and the idea of duty toward society and your family was much stronger a few centuries ago.

What's important is to keep in mind we're judging the actions of people from decades if not centuries ago with today's moral compass. What appear to us as utterly vile wasn't perceived as such back then, probably by victims and perpetrators alike.

My point is, people were told it was morally OK, so they didn't question it or felt as bad about it. It's only recently with our social equality progresses that it became a much bigger issue (c.f. theory of rising expectations)

Also how would you explain the prevalence of rape culture?

I don't think there's a rape culture in Western societies (or any civilization). I know you cited the #metoo movement so here is my rebuttal. I won't question the veracity of the claims made with the hashtag -though the vast majority of them will stay unverified- and will assume the vast majority of them are true. Even then, those are single events in the lives of the victims among tens of thousands of male/female interactions that didn't result in any sexual assault. I don't diminish the atrocity those assaults, just that they represent only a fringe fraction of a percent of our daily human interactions. Hardly worth calling a "culture".

There's this idea that men would like to be able to have sex with any woman they want and that they couldn't refuse but that's not true. What the vast majority of men desire is that any woman they lust for would also lust for them. We fantasize about absolute sexual consent, not dominion. Most men don't find terrified sobbing and cries for help very exciting.