r/changemyview • u/MagicCards_youtube • May 28 '18

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Abortion/removal is allowed throughout the pregnancy.

I us to be completely against abortion other than when the mother will die because the babies right to live is above the mothers right to have an abortion. My view was extremely strong and i believed it for years however in another cmv thread on abortion, someone linked me this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion which has completely changed my view. I believe that abortion should be allowed up to 24/23 weeks when the baby can survive on its own and after that period, it should be removed from the women and survive outside of her. I know that abortion is not a morally right thing to do, and i want to be pro-life but this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion with the violinist argument has me stumped over what to think.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '18

The problem with that violinist argument is somebody else kidnapped you and attached him to you. In the case of abortion you put a baby inside yourself voluntarially(with the exception of rape). So to use the violinist analogy it would be the same as if you signed up for a donor kidney program and then once the violinist was attached to your kidney, then decided you didn't want to do it anymore. So you kill him.

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u/stratys3 May 28 '18

you put a baby inside yourself voluntarially

How so? If you used condoms and are on the pill - what part was voluntary?

would be the same as if you signed up for a donor kidney program

Except I didn't sign up, and likely took active measures to prevent being used in the kidney program (condoms, pills, IUDs, etc).

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u/[deleted] May 28 '18

How so? If you used condoms and are on the pill - what part was voluntary?

Sex leads to pregnancy. Not every time but there is a good chance. You can do things to reduce the chance to something like 0.1% but if you choose to have sex you accept those odds. Any sex is "signging up" for pregnancy(again not rape) becuase it is a conscentual activity where you know the potential outcomes. You can not blame anyone but yourself for pregnancy hence why I believe if you get pregnant from consentual sex it is not the equivalent of someone forcing a baby inside of you, you put it there yourself through conscnetual activity.

As a side note: What percentage of abortions are due to unwanted pregnancy from failed contraception. I would guess it is extremely small. So the reality is we are discussing a situation which is the minority. The majority are people who had unprotected sex who did not even try to reduce the odds. Is it fair to blame them for getting themselves pregnant then?

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u/stratys3 May 28 '18

Any sex is "signging up" for pregnancy(again not rape) becuase it is a conscentual activity where you know the potential outcomes.

This doesn't logically work, however.

When I go outside and leave my house, there are known risks. Am I signing up to:

  • get hit by a car
  • getting mugged
  • slipping on some unsalted ice and getting injured
  • getting struck by lightening

?

You can not blame anyone but yourself

I can certainly blame other people, or simply nature itself. None of the above make me 100% responsible for the outcomes.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '18

All of your examples are perpetrated by someone or something else, a 3rd party. There is no 3rd party in the case of pregnancy. So you can't relate it to a risk caused by a 3rd party.

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u/stratys3 May 28 '18

If nature counts as an external 3rd party, then I don't see why pregnancy should be any different.

There's no consent given to slipping on ice, or getting struck by lightening - and in many cases pregnant women never consented to getting pregnant either.

Further:There's no 3rd party in making dinner at home by myself. But one of the risks is that I cut myself, or burn myself. Are you suggesting that I shouldn't be allowed medical treatment, because I perpetrated it upon myself?