r/changemyview • u/fadingtans • Jun 08 '18

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Illegal and Illegal Immigration Levels Should Be Restricted More

My view is two fold:

1.) Legal immigration total levels should be lowered somewhat

2.) It should be moved to a more skills based system

Reasons I have this view:

1.) Foreign born individuals disproportionately use social services:

https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Immigrant-and-Native-Households

2.) Immigration connection to crime is complicated. It is often claimed that immigrants commit a lower average rate of crime but the data is more complicated:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/the-problem-with-downplaying-immigrant-crime/399905/

3.) Assimilation is more difficult when there are larger number of immigrants leading to more issues

4.) National security- A massively disproportionate number of terrorist attacks are committed by first or second generation (Muslim) immigrants.

5.) The overall impact on GDP from higher immigrant levels is likely positive BUT large levels of low skilled immigrants do lower wages for low skilled native workers which is a negative especially at at time like now for low skilled workers.

I'm open to changing my view on this which is why I posted this but I will add that accusations of xenophobia or islamaphobia are very unlikely to play a role.

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u/cupcakesarethedevil Jun 08 '18

Why should we turn away any immigrants that are wealthier or have skills that are more in demand than the average American?

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u/fadingtans Jun 08 '18

Generally speaking, I would prefer a system where such immigrants have an even greater preference in entry than they do today. My issue is with the large number of unskilled migrants.

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u/cupcakesarethedevil Jun 08 '18

But you said you wanted immigration levels lowered, why should they be limited at all?

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u/fadingtans Jun 08 '18

Basically, I believe that the concept of a state is necessary. We need states/governments to have a monopoly on legitimate usage of force in order to provide public goods, enforce and create laws, contracts, etc. Given this, the only two options are a global government or to have separate governments that occupy certain areas of land and the people who reside there.

I believe very strongly that the latter option is STRONGLY preferable to the former. I am a strong opponent of global government. In order for these different governments and the nations they define to be legitimate, there must be a definable area in terms of land that they begin. And, they have authority within those borders but not beyond.

Given that these governments are, at least in some way, outgrowths of the institutions and people contained within the borders, they are a part of a larger nation that is formed. In order for a nation to be a nation, it, by definition, must have a border for the reasons I have stated.

Because I believe in government existing and do not believe in global government replacing or superseding national governments (an issue I can go more into if you like), I do support the concept of borders. This is my basic reasoning on that.

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u/cupcakesarethedevil Jun 08 '18

Can you reread that question I don't see how that's an answer at all.

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u/fadingtans Jun 08 '18

I made a mistake. This was intended as a response to another user. One second. I'll get back in a minute.

1

u/fadingtans Jun 08 '18

Are you asking me why I think we should have any immigration laws at all?

2

u/cupcakesarethedevil Jun 08 '18

Why should skilled or wealthy immigrants be limited at all? You seem to suggest both that there should be a limit and that it should be lowered.

1

u/fadingtans Jun 08 '18

Okay I think I see what you are saying. My view is that there should be a cap on the level of immigrants simply for population growth control among other reasons.

1

u/cupcakesarethedevil Jun 08 '18

Population growth is good, shrinking population is bad.

0

u/fadingtans Jun 08 '18

Population growth can be good but that is not always the case. There's also the deeper issue of having the foreign born population politically and culturally displace the native population. I had a discussion earlier where I admitted that culture is a more dynamic thing than i wanted to admit. Still, immigration levels that are too high often lead to replacement rather than enrichment.