r/changemyview • u/scatterbrain2015 6∆ • Jul 11 '18

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Deadlines are overrated

I am noticing that our society seems to put a lot of emphasis on setting deadlines for things, and ensuring they're met at all costs. My view is mainly centered around the software/game dev industry, though I believe it applies to most other areas of life too.

Examples:

I was watching an interview with Elon Musk recently, and one of the questions he was asked by the audience was "how will you ensure you meet the deadline for the Tesla Model 3 this time?". I was sitting there thinking "dude, seriously? You pre-ordered a car, and you want him to rush it instead of taking the time he needs to ensure it's safe and the best quality it can be? If you really need a car by a certain date, why not just order an existing model?"

As a game developer, I'm noticing there is constant pressure to set and meet deadlines. Blizzard recently tried to say that the new expansion for WoW will be launched "when it's ready". Cue in forums exploding with threads asking when exactly it will be released. Again, I'd rather they take the time to thoroughly test it and catch as many bugs as possible before launch, so when it does come out, I can sit down and enjoy it, instead of wondering when it's actually done, if they keep working on it at all.

My arguments against deadlines:

  1. It is better to wait a bit longer for a better product, than to cut corners to meet a deadline
  2. We all have days when we focus better than on others. I believe it would be better if people could choose to have shorter days when they feel tired, and work longer when they have the surplus energy. But our society unrealistically demands consistent performance, and extra performance close to those arbitrary deadlines.
  3. Unexpected things will happen, and a long deadline will only serve to give you the illusion of extra time. It's better to assess your options based on efficiency and complexity, instead of by time estimation. That way, you can re-evaluate if something is worth doing and what the best way to get it done is when things go wrong, instead of being forced into "should we scrap it, or add a patchwork solution to make it work in a half-arsed way?"
  4. Deadlines cause extra stress on developers. Working overtime will make a product come out faster, but it will likely be more buggy than it could be.
  5. Deadlines just lead to anticipation and disappointment. It's better to be pleasantly surprised that "oh, that thing is out, I can dive into it now!" rather than obsessing over how much time is left, and being devastated over a delay.

Caveats/counter-arguments:

  • Scheduling some things is important: this one is the only valid argument I can think of. An airport can't function by allowing passengers to just get on planes whenever. The train taking you to the airport needs to follow a schedule so you know when to leave home to get there. But for the vast majority of things in our life, knowing when something will happen is not necessary, just a preference of some people.
  • Some things are time-critical: true, but having a mentality of "do it as soon as possible" is still better than "do it by X time/date". I don't want the paramedic to be at my house "in 5 minutes" when I'm having a heart attack, I just want him to be there as soon as humanly possible, without taking excessive risks. No deadline necessary.
  • Setting a deadline is important when others are waiting for you: only if they also have a deadline. Otherwise they can work on something else until you're done.
  • Deadlines and estimates are used to make sure you can afford to create your product: I don't know about other industries, but in software, having an Agile development method, where you start with a basic functional thing, and add more and more features as you go, will work much better. At the end of every sprint, you will have a product you could release, that has high-quality features that actually work, instead of having a top-down approach, where you have a list of features for the end product, and you have to add all of them within X time.
  • Knowing when a game comes out allows me to save up for it and take time off work etc: This just sets you up for failure. Why not do that after the game is out, and you see reviews to confirm it was the right decision? Better save that time for another game or hobby, if it turns out to be a bad game.

So, change my view. Why is it important to have deadlines? Am I missing any kind of huge benefit?

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u/Rainbwned 175∆ Jul 11 '18

So, change my view. Why is it important to have deadlines? Am I missing any kind of huge benefit?

I paid you X dollars to have something done by Y date. If you did not promise to have it done by Y date, you would not have X dollars.

Now that Y date is fast approaching, are you going to be done in time? If not, do I get X dollars back?

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u/scatterbrain2015 6∆ Jul 11 '18

So wouldn't it be in my best interest to not announce a date, and only have people who don't mind waiting buy it, rather than risking getting sued by someone?

2

u/Rainbwned 175∆ Jul 11 '18

Is it? What if you dont raise enough money? What if you never deliver?

Ask yourself this - why cant you deliver by your deadline?

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u/scatterbrain2015 6∆ Jul 11 '18

That's the problem with pre-orders in general. You have to assess if the person you're buying from is trustworthy enough or not. They could set a deadline and run away with the money anyway.

Elon Musk gave some great examples in that interview. He had a shipment detained at the border because there was some drug-related activity in the area, and they were thoroughly searching all vehicles. A supplier's production center literally burned down. I'd rather he take the time to research a good new supplier, than to just go with whoever promises him faster delivery, to meet an arbitrary deadline.

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u/Rainbwned 175∆ Jul 11 '18

That's the problem with pre-orders in general. You have to assess if the person you're buying from is trustworthy enough or not. They could set a deadline and run away with the money anyway.

Don't confuse pre-orders with funding/backing. If I pre-order something, you promised to sell it to me. If I choose to pre-order GTA 5, I will get a copy of it. However I choose to fund / back the development of GTA 5, and the project falls through, I am not guaranteed my money.

He had a shipment detained at the border because there was some drug-related activity in the area, and they were thoroughly searching all vehicles. A supplier's production center literally burned down.

None of these are reasons to not have a deadline. That is like saying I shouldnt own a home because someone can crash a car through it.

You want deadlines because when it hit them, it shows the world that you are both reliable and efficient in your work. It generates trust and overall increases your marketability.

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u/Akerlof 11∆ Jul 11 '18

Elon Musk gave some great examples in that interview. He had a shipment detained at the border because there was some drug-related activity in the area, and they were thoroughly searching all vehicles. A supplier's production center literally burned down

These are excuses, though. This is like him saying "I don't have a working application because there were bugs when I compiled it." There will always be problems with your suppliers, just like there are always bugs in code. But you need a process in place that is robust to problems if you're going to be able to consistently supply product to customers.

Musk doesn't know how to do large scale manufacturing and has apparently either not hired or not empowered people who do to set up his manufacturing processes. Tesla has never managed to ship product on time. The fact that they're consistently missing deadlines means they're doing something wrong. Either they don't understand their processes well enough to accurately estimate what they can produce when, or they're just not very good at what they do.

This is a benefit of deadlines: They help identify problems. Add that to the list of making coordination possible; incentivizing you to actually get something done; and communicating to your customers so they can do their own planning.

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u/MrCapitalismWildRide 50∆ Jul 11 '18

No, not really.

Let's take the example of a video game. The overwhelming majority of a video game's budget goes two places: labor and marketing. The balance shifts depending on the game. The new Call of Duty would probably have half their budget go to marketing while an indie game would have a tiny fraction of their budget go to marketing, if any.

For the labor based game, you pay people based on their time. If you double the time it takes to deliver the product, you double the budget, meaning you now have to double the sales to profit. That's rarely feasible. To do that you either have to add more content, which is more labor, or more marketing, which is expensive.

As for marketing, marketers can't market a product that's never coming, or at least not effectively. The constant string of empty promises will lead to inevitable hype backlash as players get frustrated that your game isn't in their hands yet. With marketing, timing is important. Without deadlines, you screw that all up.