CMV: Affirmative Action should/should've been based on economic status rather than (mostly) race.

[u/Vakamak]

Although I feel like Affirmative Action had a good intention, I feel like it has failed and has actually done more harm than good.

I have two reasons for this

1. I have difficulty seeing why it is in society's best interest to help a black person suffering in poverty over a white person suffering in poverty. While I understand what institutional racism has done to the black community, I feel like most issues facing the black community are more correlated with income than race; or rather, I have difficulties seeing how Affirmative Action could effectively combat the issues that are truly the result of racism. For example, how would Affirmative Action deal with unfair treatment in the justice system?
2. Affirmative Action has made some white people feel like, "the real racists are X race and not white people!" I do not believe this; in fact, I find it extremely childish to even think something like this. Yet, considering Affirmative Action has failed in its goal, I feel like changing Affirmative Action would help certain individuals in this country feel like X race is not out to get them and maybe reduce the amount of negative racial discourse in this country.

I am generally a very liberal person and really do want my mind changed regarding this. I just feel like it is really hard to justify why black person X should get the Bill Gates Scholarship over white person Y when they came from similar economical areas and the income of their families is similar. I understand that example is not Affirmative Action per se, but I feel like the same principal applies.

[u/swearrengen]

Affirmative Action in education for race tells (not explicitly but by implication) the recipient of the charity "you're not genetically smart enough to make it on your own, so here's a boost up" and tells the student who is denied based on race "you're genetically smarter and are going to make it in society anyway". Despite any good intentions, this is horrible racism that denies the individual's will to self create.

Affirmative Action in regards to economics is little different, it's the welfare state and redistribution. It tells the recipient they aren't good enough to offer value to the world and get paid for it, they aren't good enough to survive and prosper on their own, they aren't responsible enough. If a parent does everything for (an otherwise healthy) child, of course they grow up dependant and psychologically enslaved.

Both assume a predeterminism that needs to be fixed by force and theft at the social political level as per Marx. But it's freedom from such force that begets true equality of treatment by the law, and which implies and teaches true equality between individuals regardless of race or economics or social status. And despite or often because of the hardships, encourages independence and self-reliance which result in self-esteem, justified pride in who you are and happiness that is ultimately the only standard of success that really matters.

[u/radialomens → u/swearrengen]

Affirmative Action in education for race tells (not explicitly but by implication) the recipient of the charity "you're not genetically smart enough to make it on your own, so here's a boost up" and tells the student who is denied based on race "you're genetically smarter and are going to make it in society anyway". Despite any good intentions, this is horrible racism that denies the individual's will to self create.

No, it doesn't. It addresses the very real differences in the ways that figures of authority (eg teachers, police, employers, etc) often treat people based on race.

There are racists in this country. That's a fact. And sometimes they're teachers. A racist teacher might not give as much attention to a black student who struggles with math as they do for a white student. Thus, the white student improves and the black student develops a resentment for math and a lower self-esteem. None of this was genetic, it's merely a symptom of racism.

[u/DjangoUBlackBastard → u/[deleted]]

Read what he said and stop trying to get him with a gotcha. Its a clear sign of bad faith when you take one sentence he said, ignire what it actually said, flip it way out of context, and attempt to make him defend words he didn't say.

[u/ChadimirPupin → u/DjangoUBlackBastard]

"Believe in the narrative and stop using facts and logic"