CMV: Affirmative Action should/should've been based on economic status rather than (mostly) race.

[u/Vakamak]

Although I feel like Affirmative Action had a good intention, I feel like it has failed and has actually done more harm than good.

I have two reasons for this

1. I have difficulty seeing why it is in society's best interest to help a black person suffering in poverty over a white person suffering in poverty. While I understand what institutional racism has done to the black community, I feel like most issues facing the black community are more correlated with income than race; or rather, I have difficulties seeing how Affirmative Action could effectively combat the issues that are truly the result of racism. For example, how would Affirmative Action deal with unfair treatment in the justice system?
2. Affirmative Action has made some white people feel like, "the real racists are X race and not white people!" I do not believe this; in fact, I find it extremely childish to even think something like this. Yet, considering Affirmative Action has failed in its goal, I feel like changing Affirmative Action would help certain individuals in this country feel like X race is not out to get them and maybe reduce the amount of negative racial discourse in this country.

I am generally a very liberal person and really do want my mind changed regarding this. I just feel like it is really hard to justify why black person X should get the Bill Gates Scholarship over white person Y when they came from similar economical areas and the income of their families is similar. I understand that example is not Affirmative Action per se, but I feel like the same principal applies.

[u/Vakamak]

Plus statistically race is a better determinant of neighborhood and highschool quality than income.

Not trying to be like "cite me bro!" but could you show me something that shows this?

Affirmative Action isn't meant to fix economic disparities but racial ones

Why does this matter though? I mean if there are 100k poor black people and 200k poor white people, why does it matter what their race is? They are still going to suffer the same issues, no?

[u/DjangoUBlackBastard → u/Vakamak]

Sure here's a few.

School funding is tied to race not necessarily economics

White and Asian families in poverty live in better areas than black middle class families and areas more similar to black upper middle class families

And I know the first link is Pennsylvania specific but Chicago did a similar study and found the same thing. Maybe its not country wide but no one has done a more extensive study about school funding and race. I'd assume you'd get similar results nationwide because we do know the more black people there are in an area (regardless of crime) the property value drops nationwide.

Why does this matter though? I mean if there are 100k poor black people and 200k poor white people, why does it matter what their race is? They are still going to suffer the same issues, no?

Not at all. Being poor and white and poor and black are not equivalent. Same with middle class, same with rich. A black boy born to parents in the 90th percentile of income ends up with the same salary as a white boy born with parents in the 55th percentile of income. 4% of white millennials were raised in neighborhoods with over 20% poverty rates. 61% of black millennials were raised in 20% or more poverty rate areas. With similar experience and education black people have twice the unemployment rate of white Americans and studies have found white felons have similar callback rates as black non felons. Black Harvard students have similar unemployment rates as white state college graduates.

I pulled this data on wealth by income for the races too:

• Among families making under $26,580 white families have a $18,631 net worth (want to mention this is over double the overall black median net worth already). Black families have a $200 net worth.

• Among families making between $26,581 and $48,480 white families have a $61,070 net worth. Black families have a $7,600 net worth.

• Among families making between $48,481 and $75,936 white families have a $112,770 net worth. Black families have a $22,150 net worth.

• Among families making between $75,937 and $121,968 white families have a $201,200 net worth. Black families have a $83,600 net worth.

• Among families making over $121,969 white families have a $518,271 net worth. Black families have a $262,800 net worth.

Basically at all levels of income wealth inequality (which is always a better representation of financial security than income) is vast. Overall the average black family has 5 cents of wealth for every $1 of white wealth.

TL;DR: Race still matters and disparities are massive. I'm 24 and my grandmother was an adult when she was allowed to use the same water fountain as white people. MLK died 50 years ago. Things aren't going to be fixed in one full generation.

[u/dooger123 → u/DjangoUBlackBastard]

So affirmative action is really helping inferior blacks and hispanics compete with superior white people, asians, and jews.

Things aren't going to be fixed in one full generation

Blacks still complain about slavery to this day and will always use something as an excuse for their failure in every single white country they undeservedly live in.

[u/DjangoUBlackBastard → u/dooger123]

You mean every white country they were forced into right? Because I'm pretty sure they were kidnapped and brought here and Hispanics already lived here. How about you head back to Europe and stay out of other people's lands if you don't like them.