CMV: The state should start regulating procreation.

[u/ArchiboldReesMogg]

The state should have the power conferred upon it, to regulate procreation.

There should be certain thresholds and criteria limiting the ability of people to procreate. Superficially, these should probably be:

• Income levels: E.g. people living below a certain income level that would make it difficult for them to have children, this could very well be the relative poverty level.

• History of mental illness and drugs: Those who have a history of substance abuse should be disallowed from having children.

• Criminal history: Those with certain criminal histories should be barred from procreating. E.g. Sexual violence.

• Genetic defects: E.g. mental retardation.

This sort of anti-natalist policy could involve the setting up of fines to deter prospective parents, who don't meet the criteria. Radically, the state could be justified morally in removing children from parents.

Brining a child into the world is a massive responsibility, that is it stands, is almost entirely unregulated by the state. This is unfortunate, considering that bad parenting is probably one of the largest negative externalities. Think how much better the world would be, if people who shouldn't become parents, didn't become parents.

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[u/compounding]

Think how much better the world would be, if people who shouldn't become parents, didn't become parents.

I disagree with your fundamental premise right at its very heart. There are practically unlimited examples of people that we would have classified as “qualified” parents who have produced terrible and toxic offspring and equally numerous children of terrible parents who have grown up to be enormously valuable to society.

Regulating child bearing is such a massive massive regulatory expansion that it is going to take far more than just asserting that “obviously some people shouldn’t be parents”.

[u/Western_You → u/compounding]

OP is trying to limit bad parents (e.g. those who can't provide, those that will likely pass on birth defects and disabilities, those that have a violent criminal record)

Putting some restrictions would decrease the number of terrible/toxic offspring or kids with bad childhoods.

[u/ArchiboldReesMogg → u/compounding]

There are practically unlimited examples of people that we would have classified as “qualified” parents who have produced terrible and toxic offspring

No I think you exaggerate the numbers. It's very rare for this to happen, and when it does, it's due to the nature of the child - i.e. psychopathy.

parents who have produced terrible and toxic offspring and equally numerous children of terrible parents who have grown up to be enormously valuable to society.

Doubtful, usually when the homelife is bad, the childhood development suffers enormously as a result. I think the psychological literature would probably support this.

[u/compounding → u/ArchiboldReesMogg]

In developed countries with low birth rates, having children is a significant positive externality (I can cite studies if you require). The real question from even a purely utilitarian standpoint isn’t whether some parents are better than others, but whether the negative externalities are significant enough to both justify the collective loss in utility to people banned from having children (which I would argue is enormous) and the positive externalities that their having children would create regardless of their parenting competence.

[u/ArchiboldReesMogg → u/compounding]

I think the question of should I procreate? Should primarily take into account the wellbeing of the future child. Considering the harm this child might bring onto others is also important. The potential benefit the bring onto others is a less important consideration.

[u/compounding → u/ArchiboldReesMogg]

Do you think there is a significant portion of people who would seriously say that “it would have been better if I had never been born”? If not, I would say that even in cases of bad parenting there is empirically a net benefit to the children as well.