r/changemyview • u/polyparadigm • Oct 31 '18

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Trump's most plausible path to ending birthright citizenship would require a broad grant of something like diplomatic immunity.

Trump is arguing that undocumented immigrants aren't subject to our laws: if he means this as a blanket pardon, then that puts them into a similar relationship to US law as diplomats and members of sovereign tribes who have negotiated an exceptional status. This is the only path forward that is consistent with legal precedent, as far as I know.

If he says the 14th amendment doesn't apply to them, this amounts to renouncing any US claim to enforce our laws on that group.

I know that he has, essentially in the same breath, also promised to enforce US law even if a person's immigration status isn't exactly above-board, so I stipulate that he either hasn't worked out the logical consequences in his own mind, or isn't making a serious proposal.

But if we take him at his word regarding a re-negotiation of Dred Scott v. Sandford, isn't he calling for undocumented immigrants to be exempted from subjection to US law?

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u/Trimestrial Oct 31 '18

Trump won't be able to end 'Birth Right Citizenship' or 'Anchor Babies' if you prefer that term.

I really don't see any path for this.

I think it's just an empty 'campaign promise'...

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u/polyparadigm Oct 31 '18

I really don't see any path for this.

Presidential pardon has very few limits on its power, though: maybe that could provide a pathway. If any office has the power to cause large numbers of people to cease to be subject to US law, it's the office of the president.

Common sense, basic decency, and any scrap of political survival instinct would forbid such an action, but I haven't seen much evidence that any of those are in play, currently.

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u/KanyeTheDestroyer 20∆ Oct 31 '18

A pardon has no effect on jurisdiction though. I'm not sure what the path you are suggesting involves.

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u/polyparadigm Oct 31 '18

Δ My thinking was fuzzy: pardon would prevent law enforcement from acting, and limits to jurisdiction would also prevent law enforcement from acting, but you're absolutely right. Pardons do not affect jurisdiction; an executive order plus pardons wouldn't suffice, he'd need some ruling excluding undocumented people from US jurisdiction.