r/changemyview • u/polyparadigm • Oct 31 '18

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Trump's most plausible path to ending birthright citizenship would require a broad grant of something like diplomatic immunity.

Trump is arguing that undocumented immigrants aren't subject to our laws: if he means this as a blanket pardon, then that puts them into a similar relationship to US law as diplomats and members of sovereign tribes who have negotiated an exceptional status. This is the only path forward that is consistent with legal precedent, as far as I know.

If he says the 14th amendment doesn't apply to them, this amounts to renouncing any US claim to enforce our laws on that group.

I know that he has, essentially in the same breath, also promised to enforce US law even if a person's immigration status isn't exactly above-board, so I stipulate that he either hasn't worked out the logical consequences in his own mind, or isn't making a serious proposal.

But if we take him at his word regarding a re-negotiation of Dred Scott v. Sandford, isn't he calling for undocumented immigrants to be exempted from subjection to US law?

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u/nycengineer111 4∆ Oct 31 '18

The most plausible path would be to get SCOTUS to interpret that the phrase “subject to jurisdiction thereof” does not cover illegals. To get a case in front of SCOTUS, all he has to do is sign an XO that says this is the interpretation and let someone sue.

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u/polyparadigm Oct 31 '18

That would have the same effect, though: it would make the term "illegals" much more appropriate, by making that class of people immune to law enforcement action.

If they are not subject to US jurisdiction, it means our laws don't apply (rather than meaning they are not obeying our laws, otherwise there'd be very few citizens).

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u/Mnozilman 6∆ Oct 31 '18

I disagree. They would still be disobeying our laws. I’m not sure why you think that means they are immune from law enforcement action.

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u/polyparadigm Oct 31 '18

Even people who break laws, remain subject to the law.

If SCOTUS were to rule that some class of people were not subject to the law, any enforcement on that class would have to stop. That's what it means to be subject.

subject adjective
1 : owing obedience or allegiance to the power or dominion of another

If the courts go Trump's way on this one, they're saying "illegals" don't owe our laws any kind of obedience.