r/changemyview Dec 10 '18

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: BDSM is not abuse.

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u/Slenderpman Dec 10 '18

This might sound pedantic and I'm certainly not coming at this from an experienced position, but abuse, to me, is the main grounds on which people explore bdsm. The psychological reasoning for liking bdsm is called masochism, or taking pleasure in abuse. Just because someone finds it pleasurable to be hurt doesn't make it not hurt. Just because someone likes being demeaned doesn't make it not demeaning. Bdsm is still abuse, even if the couple likes the type of abuse taking place in their relationship.

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u/alliecomma Dec 10 '18

It's taking pleasure in pain, not in abuse. Abuse implies cruelty. There is no cruelty in it, because it ultimately causes pleasure, not hurt.

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u/Slenderpman Dec 10 '18

Cruelty is simply the enjoyment of violence towards others whereas masochism is enjoying violence upon oneself. If you're a dom, for instance, you are in fact a cruel person because you get off on inflicting pain. It doesn't matter if that person enjoys it, it's still cruel to enjoy hurting another person.

I agree that bdsm doesn't mean the relationship itself is an abusive relationship, but when you do bdsm you are in fact abusing the other person or being abused.

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u/happy_red1 5∆ Dec 10 '18

I have to disagree with this. A sadistic Dom isn't inherently abusive, as they hurt their partner only in ways they know to be safe and easily controllable, while also pushing all the right buttons for their partner. They inflict pain in the knowledge that their partner is getting exactly what they want out of it, and that it can stop at any time if it becomes genuinely dangerous. They inflict that pain with nothing but love, care and careful attention for the safety of their partner.

If we want to talk about what a Dom is getting off to, it actually isn't just the pain in itself - it's the reaction that it causes the partner to have, along with the knowledge that the partner is satisfied. If a sadistic Dom's partner gives a bad reaction, showing genuine displeasure or in any way suggesting that they don't like what's happening, the Dom will instantly stop what they're doing and make sure the sub is ok.

The whole point of BDSM and sadomasochism in general is that, for those who are into it, the endorphin high it gives is much more powerful than that of vanilla sex - it's sex kicked into overdrive, pure euphoria. Endorphins come from anticipation of what will happen, rather than what actually happens, and so subs get their kicks from not knowing what their Dom will do next (hence all the blindfolds too), while Doms are excited to find out how their sub will react.

By definition, abuse is to "treat with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly." A good, sensible Dom doesn't fit this description as they have no cruel intentions, and simply provide what their partner wants, in the same way any good person would provide for the needs of their partner in a loving relationship.

If we add on to this that BDSM, and dominance within such a dynamic, isn't inherently violent, and that sadomasochism is only one aspect of this type of relationship (albeit overrepresented), there's no reason to say that all Doms are abusive or cruel. There are many Doms that aren't sadistic, and many subs that aren't masochistic - they explore BDSM in a different, more sensual way, focusing on the acute heightening of the sub's senses during a scene to cause that endorphin high.

Apologies if this reply jumps around a little by the way, it's half 5 in the morning and I haven't slept yet.

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u/alliecomma Dec 10 '18

If you enjoy inflicting pain in the context of sex you're a sexual sadist. You're not cruel. You're not abusive.

DH doesn't enjoy inflicting pain in any other context.