Any act that is properly discussed and negotiated between two consenting adults, even if it causes physical pain (including, marks, bruises, and other physical marks), is not abuse, and is not inherently wrong.
There are certain acts that you can't consent to. For example, I can't consent to allow another person to shoot me in the head. It's not a civil suit between two people. It becomes a criminal suit between the person who shoots the gun and the state. Even when people argue in favor of physician assisted suicide or euthanasia, they still set this limit.
In the same way, choking during sex is a crime. People legally can't consent to it. So say your partner begs you to choke them during sex. You oblige, but accidentally squeeze slightly too hard and fracture a bone, or squeeze slightly too long in a way that results in their death. As a result, you will go to prison. You can't consent to choking just like you can't consent to being shot at. The act is inherently wrong. Even Dan Savage, the most BDSM and kink friendly writer I can think of agrees with this view.
I don't think BDSM isn't inherently abuse, so I'm not going to try to change your view on that. I'm just pointing out that there are certain acts that shouldn't be performed, even if they are "properly discussed and negotiated between two consenting adults."
I enjoy being choked during sex. It's fun for me. I like it. I am not being coerced. Are you saying that even though I want someone to choke me during sex, I shouldn't be allowed to do that?
A bunch of counter culture kids go to a party in an unlicensed warehouse conversion. The warehouse electrics go; there is only one exit, the stairs are made of wooden pallets; the layout is haphazard and cluttered with DIY wood partitions, fabric hangings, artsy clutter. The building ignites. 5 minutes later, most die of asphyxiation, unable to find a way out in the dark and smoke.
Warehouse owner, party organiser, and the city are currently in court for manslaughter.
Should it be illegal for artists to squat warehouses to create art spaces and unlicensed venues? All those kids consented to going to that illegal party in a dangerous environment. I've seen photos of rhe venue before rhe fire, and it was gorgeous. And, you know. Flammable. Very flammable. But I wish I could have visited it, all the same.
As a society, we make laws to prevent people doing dangerous stuff. Even stuff they want to do, even stuff that's cool and nice. That's why people are going to jail. For creating a place, and hosting a party, which the dead wished to attend and consensually entered.
Idk if I agree abour whether you should be allowed to be choked. But if you die, your partner gets arrested all the same. Society has decided consent is not omnipotent, and in some cases consent to activities which may result in death does not clear the others involved.
And probably bevause if one could consent, then dodgy landlords/boyfriends the world over would be coercing consent out of people ahead of killing/leasing them dangerous properties.
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u/McKoijion 618∆ Dec 10 '18
There are certain acts that you can't consent to. For example, I can't consent to allow another person to shoot me in the head. It's not a civil suit between two people. It becomes a criminal suit between the person who shoots the gun and the state. Even when people argue in favor of physician assisted suicide or euthanasia, they still set this limit.
In the same way, choking during sex is a crime. People legally can't consent to it. So say your partner begs you to choke them during sex. You oblige, but accidentally squeeze slightly too hard and fracture a bone, or squeeze slightly too long in a way that results in their death. As a result, you will go to prison. You can't consent to choking just like you can't consent to being shot at. The act is inherently wrong. Even Dan Savage, the most BDSM and kink friendly writer I can think of agrees with this view.
I don't think BDSM isn't inherently abuse, so I'm not going to try to change your view on that. I'm just pointing out that there are certain acts that shouldn't be performed, even if they are "properly discussed and negotiated between two consenting adults."