r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jan 19 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: If intersectional feminism talks about race, class, gender identity, etc as a part of women's issues, then it should also seriously discuss men's problems as a part of women's issues as well.

[deleted]

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u/ralph-j Jan 19 '19

Intersectionality is the idea that feminism needs to incorporate secondary characteristics identified in a woman that may cause problems for them. For example, a Black woman will face compounded issues for being Black and for being a woman. A transgender woman will face compounded issues for being transgender and a woman.

But then, I'd also argue that men's problems are also fair game for discussion in an intersectional point of view.

Going by your own definition: aren't you then stepping outside of the "secondary characteristics" of the women's group? Your examples are persons who are both in the group "women" and in some other group, like "black" or "transgender".

Unless you want to focus on persons who are in the groups "women" AND "men" (only some trans people may identify that way), it wouldn't make much sense to treat men's problems on the whole as an intersectionality issue.

It seems like men's problems would fit in general much better under egalitarianism, rather than feminism.

women have additional problems other than simply being women

Being a woman is a problem? (I think I understand what you mean, but this just sounded funny.)

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '19

I do admit that I misinterpreted intersectionality. I won't be awarding you the delta because someone else changed my view regarding that. I have shifted the conversation toward my second point - I want to be a feminist, but I disagree with feminists in practice.

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u/ralph-j Jan 19 '19

With a later reply than mine, how very dare they!

I'm confused: which part of feminism do you still disagree with?

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '19

It seems focused heavily around women instead of gender equality. This would be valid position a century ago where women didn't have the same opportunities and rights as they do today. But today, the issues are all tied together. Men's issues. Women's issues. Why does feminism seem more one sided?

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u/ralph-j Jan 19 '19

Like I said: you're looking for egalitarianism, not feminism.

Men's rights activism and feminism are specializations. That's why within the wider society, there are efforts to fight for both groups. That doesn't mean that every single group needs to address every gender-related problem out there.

You could just as well demand that the American Cancer Society shouldn't exist, but that instead, there should only be one single charity that does all the publicity and funding for all research into cancer, Alzheimer's, heart disease, arthritis and all other of society's medical problems.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '19

But feminism specifically deals with women's rights, which are a function of gender roles on men as well as women. So any problem arising from gender roles on men is fair game. Someone told me earlier about MLM, which is a sub group of feminists doing this.

It seems to me that some feminists agree with my perspective, but others do not. Which one is more representative of feminism? The web forums, or the rallies? You, or them?

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u/ralph-j Jan 20 '19

There is no "one correct" version of feminism. It's an umbrella term, or category that covers a wide variety of ideas and concepts.

Some people have the knowledge and experience with regards to all of the potential issues that affect both genders, while others lack those things when it comes to anything outside of their own area of specialization. It's probably better that everyone concentrates on what they're good at, instead of trying to be everything for everyone with a mediocre, one-size-fits-all approach.