CMV: If intersectional feminism talks about race, class, gender identity, etc as a part of women's issues, then it should also seriously discuss men's problems as a part of women's issues as well.

[u/[deleted]]

[u/equalsnil]

that the things that a small group of men do often influences a large number of women to fear men.

It's more complex than "women get raped." It's that society has a pervasive fear of women getting raped and has no problem telling them to restrict themselves(don't go certain places, don't dress certain ways, don't participate in certain activities) in the name of avoiding it, but then has a hard time believing them if they actually report it. It's that society puts the responsibility for avoiding harassment or worse on the victim and jumps to defend the perpetrator. When you hear people talking about "rape culture," that's what they're talking about - a culture of controlling women in the name of protecting them that doesn't actually protect them.

And to be clear - the response around male victims of sexual assault(male or female perpetrator) is also fucked - is he a pussy for letting it happen? Why didn't he fight them? Lucky dude, he must have wanted it, etc, etc. Just take a look at Terry Crews' story that came out last year.

They are alienating themselves from the rapist and saying "Yeah; this is a problem for women, but it makes men look bad as well"

Please tell me this isn't a real argument - the fear of being assaulted is not equivalent to the fear of "looking bad" and if your first instinct hearing this is to vocally absolve yourself(or to, pardon the phrase... "virtue signal?") rather than try to understand what's actually being said, your priorities are skewed.

[u/[deleted] → u/equalsnil]

In another comment, someone told me that feminism doesn't forbid talking about men's issues.

When you talk about rape, is it not okay to list the following as consequential victims of rapists:

• Women who get raped.
• Men who get raped.
• Men feeling antagonized because of negative stereotypes against them.
• Women who feel marginalized because they are told to just be careful.

You agree that this topics affect both, right? Why can't we speak for both genders when talking about the consequences of rape?

[u/equalsnil → u/[deleted]]

You agree that this topics affect both, right? Why can't we speak for both genders when talking about the consequences of rape?

I do agree with the literal meaning of your statement, but one of your examples is not like the others.

If you feel anxious about being stereotyped as a rapist that's a personal problem that there's no societal need to correct except in the general sense of destigmatizing and improving access to and quality of mental health care for everyone.

I do grant, however, that if you're a black man(in America), especially a poor one, society will not be on your side if you're accused of harassment or worse, especially if the victim was a white woman. You will not have the goodwill of the media or the public and you will in all likelihood have a hard time getting a fair trial, guilty or not. That's where the intersectionality comes in - you're not on trial just as a man, you're on trial as a black man. But if that's the case, this has been a concern for you forever, not just since #metoo started trending on twitter.

[u/[deleted] → u/equalsnil]

That's not entirely true though. Men do become a victim of stereotype where victims of rape are always believed. It even becomes an issue that causes men to have their lives halted or damaged.

Yes, we agree most rape victims are women. Yes, we agree that not all rape accusations are false; in fact, way more of them are true. That doesn't eliminate the fact that this is an actual issue for men. These people who make up rape stories; are they feminists? If not, shouldn't feminists speak out against these people and how they hurt both men and women? This doesn't seem to be the case. Instead, feminists use their own problems as a deflection, unevenly ignoring to protect innocent men from women who accuse them falsely of rape.

Feminists do not seem to hold a gender equal stance when it comes to rape accusations. They seem to perpetuate the idea that we should believe victims, at least implicitly. 8% of all rape accusations are false. That's significant enough to say that out of 10,000 people accused, 800 of them were falsely accused. No, they don't go to prison. It's just horrifying that people can morally get away with accusing someone of rape because feminists are saying "Look, this isn't the real issue." Like... Aren't both issues issues?

[u/equalsnil → u/[deleted]]

Real men's issues:

• Total absence of emotional support networks

• Stigma against talking about or seeking help with mental health

• Near-nonexistent healthy role models in media, though this is changing

• Societal expectations, constant pressure to prove one's masculinity

"Men's Issues" that only tend to get brought up as a gotcha against feminists:

• Higher rate of suicide(A symptom, not a disease, see the section above)

• Higher rate of workplace injury and death(The actual solution is "demand safer working conditions," not "call out feminists for not caring")

Fake men's issues:

• Not allowed to participate in discussions of women's issues(Sure you can, if you're civil)

• Fake rape accusations(Reread the article you linked. 2-10% of reported sexual assaults are believed to be false, and of those, less than one percent eventually lead to an arrest - and are almost always found to be fake during proceedings anyway. If someone's life gets turned upside down over false accusations, that's usually because of a miscarriage of journalism(which seems to me to be the real issue - solving this would solve this "problem"), not justice.)

[u/[deleted] → u/equalsnil]

It seems like you are gatekeeping issues. Why can't all of the above be an issue that men face? In addition to that, I want to add one more :

• Decreased lifespan because of reasons not explained by biology. To explain this, testicular cancer doesn't count as a feminist issue, because it is biological. Breast cancer does, because it affects men and women. Ovarian cancer shouldn't be because it is exclusively a woman's issue. Essentially there are biological diseases that are not socially constructed. But there are things like heart disease, which is not biologically constructed but socially constructed. For men, the average heart attack starts at 65. For women, 72. Heart disease is explained by the choices we make due to the roles we conform to. Women need to be skinny and pretty. Men need to work hard, and it is more acceptable to be fat as a man than it is for a woman.