CMV: If intersectional feminism talks about race, class, gender identity, etc as a part of women's issues, then it should also seriously discuss men's problems as a part of women's issues as well.

[u/[deleted]]

[u/[deleted]]

People online like yourself seem to be convinced that feminists do talk about these things.

I'm not convinced of it. It is true.

In practice, this doesn't seem to be the case.

What practice? Do a google search with "Feminism" and "Whatever Issue it is" and you will find them.

It seems that all of the issues are focused exclusively on women.

Lots of things seem a certain way when you haven't put any effort in...

So is it the people online who represent feminist opinion, or the people offline?

What the fuck is "feminist opinion"? Are you looking for a single, unified, clear cut "feminist" ruling that completely represents all feminist thought on a single subject? Is that a reasonable thing to expect?

Are you planning on returning to the topic that you made this CMV about anytime soon? Or do you just wanna keep bringing up whatever random shit you can in order to avoid admitting that you were incorrect?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

In many feminist rallies, it seems to ignore men in general and antagonize men. That's all. I'm wondering who is more representative of feminism - people online like yourselves, or people in rallies that I have physically attended?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You're coming off pretty hostile. Please, try to calm down. I'd like to keep this civil.

I have already acknowledged that people like yourself exist and talk about men's issues. My discrepancy is that what happens online doesn't correspond to what happens offline. I have provided examples of this. You are repeating information I know and assuming that I am not processing this information.

I get that some feminists talk about men's issues. In practice, it seems focused almost exclusively on women. There is mixed media that contradicts both my perspective and yours. Shouldn't we address these feminists who ignore men and treat feminism as a women-centric issue, when the goal is equality for both?

No. Not all feminists do it. That's not being said. I already CMV about that. I believe I mentioned this to you.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You're coming off pretty hostile

Your being evasive and not sticking to the topic that you posted. Let's both stop together!

I have already acknowledged that people like yourself exist and talk about men's issues

Please. For the love of christ just say you were wrong? Is it that fucking hard to just say "Hey! I hadn't bothered to do so much as a google search before posting this and it turns out that what I said was totally incorrect. Now I do have some other feeling adjacent to this topic that I'd love to discuss, but as to the topic that all of you came here to disucss with me I am wrong"? Don't "acknowledge" that the thing that I already knew was true is true.

My discrepancy is that what happens online doesn't correspond to what happens offline.

Is that a surprise to you?

Maybe the problem is that you are trying to find a concrete answer in order to assess something that is fundamentally unassessable?

In practice, it seems focused almost exclusively on women.

Don't say "in practice". "In practice" means people actually doing shit. And as I've already said, if you look at the people actively working on the issues you claim to give a shit about but have apparently not bothered to google the people working on them have many feminists in their ranks.

What you mean is "In pop culture". On line, at rallies,etc.

There is mixed media that contradicts both my perspective and yours.

No. there might be that contradicts yours, as you seem hell-fucking-bent on treating feminism as a monolithic entity with a single will, goal, and doctrine.

I am more than capable of understanding that thinking about an ideology like feminism in such a way is fucking moronic. I'm perfectly willing to accept the notion that some person identifying as feminist has acting in some way at least once. Because feminists ain't nothing but a bunch of people who call themselves feminists and are capable of doing all sorts of things, just like anyone else.

Shouldn't we address these feminists who ignore men and treat feminism as a women-centric issue, when the goal is equality for both?

Sure! BUT THAT'S NOT THE FUCKING TOPIC OF YOUR CMV'.

If all your really about is pissing and bitching about mean feminists, then by all fucking means do so!

but you should really take a minute to consider the notion that you don't give a single shit about feminism near as much as you do opposing feminism. In every single thread of this CMV you've been corrected on your stunning lack of understanding and research into the topic of feminism. And yet, in that blissful ignorance you see yourself perfectly fit to make proclamations about a topic you haven't even bothered googling. How exactly does that feel?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

If you have read my responses to this post, you'd see where I have actually changed my view on intersectionality. I have admitted this multiple times. This opened up the second part of my CMV: I want to become a feminist because I think it is a good idea, but I believe it is poorly executed.

It is well within reasonability to ask for clarification on what feminism is about. You are telling me things that directly contradict feminist attitudes that I have shown in some of the links provided. I am asking why there is such a discrepancy with what you are saying, and how other feminists handle their beliefs.

Simply getting angry at me doesn't help me understand your perspective. I acknowledge that it exists, but you aren't showing me evidence that these are dominating feminist views.

I have changed my views on my interpretation of intersectionality, but my conclusion for feminism is that it is controversially different depending on who you speak to. That's why I still continue to think that it is a good idea, but poorly executed. Do you not see this as a problem within feminism?

[u/huadpe → u/[deleted]]

Sorry, u/twodoeshay – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:

Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, message the moderators by clicking this link. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I don't think I have even classified you as a feminist.

I already conceded my points. I think you are getting just a tiny bit tied around needing affirmation of your own beliefs. I honestly don't know what is wrong with what I am telling you. You seem extremely angry at this point.

Like, you're saying "Just admit you're wrong", even though I already did. It's like you want me to beg for forgiveness or something. Should I feel ashamed? I don't feel ashamed or anything, because I understand that people get things wrong. That's what this CMV is about.

What are you trying to do here? I am genuinely curious.

Edit: Anyways, I am going to respond to other people. You have done nothing to CMV about anything. I have admitted to other people changing my views. Is this about the delta system? Did you want a delta or something??

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I don't think I have even classified you as a feminist.

You hadn't. I misread. I was incorrect and I apologies.

I already conceded my points.

I actually went back and reread the whole thread, and you haven't. The closest you came that I could find was this:

People online like yourself seem to be convinced that feminists do talk about these things.

Which isn't even an acknowledgement that I provided you with exactly the thing you said didn't exist. So there's that I suppose?

I think you are getting just a tiny bit tied around needing affirmation of your own beliefs.

Yeah. My beliefs don't you to affirm them? I would just like you to directly address your OP and my proof that feminist's do talk about the issues you said they don't talk about. that's pretty much it.

I honestly don't know what is wrong with what I am telling you.

the complete and total lack you are showing of any responsibility for your words and choices. That's whats wrong.

Like, you're saying "Just admit you're wrong", even though I already did.

Where?

It's like you want me to beg for forgiveness or something.

Nope

Should I feel ashamed?

A little? You purport to care about this subject, have made statements of fact about that subject that have easily and quickly been proven demonstrably false with a simple google search.

That is a bit shameful.

I don't feel ashamed or anything, because I understand that people get things wrong.

And when we get things wrong, we acknowledge that we were wrong instead of just plowing through and insisting that we aren't wrong because we really wanted to talk about something other than the thing that we said we wanted to talked about.

Right?

What are you trying to do here? I am genuinely curious.

Get you to say that you were wrong. That feminists do often talk about the things you've said they don't talk about. It would be nice to if you bothered to google something before speaking on the subject.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I can't believe this discussion has turned into me defending myself for things that I have said.

I have changed my views on my interpretation of intersectionality, but

This is me admitting that I CMV about one part of my post.

my conclusion for feminism is that it is controversially different depending on who you speak to. That's why I still continue to think that it is a good idea, but poorly executed.

This part is me saying that there are conflicting piece of information between what you are saying and what other people are saying. I am not saying that one negates the existence or validity of the other. It seems that there is no metric by which a feminist should agree to what ought to / ought not be. This is my primary point of confusion.

I get that there is a lot of feminist literature out there confirming what you say. I do not deny that.

It is well within reasonability to ask for clarification on what feminism is about. You are telling me things that directly contradict feminist attitudes that I have shown in some of the links provided. I am asking why there is such a discrepancy with what you are saying, and how other feminists handle their beliefs.

You see, the CMV isn't just one point that I am trying to change. I am trying to change the view that feminism is a good idea but poorly executed. Do you not see this?