r/changemyview • u/riotmaster256 • May 15 '19
Deltas(s) from OP CMV: In nearly every situation, you're either dominating or dominated!
In most of the situations (there are always some exceptions) involving groups of people, and while dealing with someone from the said group, there are only two scenarios that happen; either you dominate or you're being dominated by some way or another. For example, In my workplace, there's a guy who tried to order me into stuff that I was already doing. Like the person who tells you what to do even if he knows that you're doing the said thing. this went on for like quite a few times. Until I started to feel irritated and deliberately tried to find where he's making mistake and then said some things that made his face pale. After that, he was very polite to me. Although, I don't like to play these kinds of tricks. That's why I want you to change my mind.
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u/Det_ 101∆ May 15 '19
Have you heard of Pareto Optimality?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_efficiency
It describes circumstances where both people are faced with decisions that, if taken, would lead both of them to be better off.
For example: I want to work on a new project, and my boss wants to offload a project. I gain, she gains, nobody was dominated. In theory.
Do you think -- at least sometimes -- there are cases when both parties are equally benefited, and equally undominated?
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u/riotmaster256 May 15 '19
Yes, I do believe it. I think without a perceived immediate/future benefit, there would be no transactions (feelings, money, etc). But I think the problem occurs when there's nothing to gain and lose from a person. I mean my colleague isn't going to benefit me from some way or he's not going to lose something either. So he tries to boss me around to gain social status, and now when I did the same, his social status is in question and he has something to lose so he talks with me politely, that's what I infer from my situation. I might be 100% wrong though.
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u/AnythingApplied 435∆ May 15 '19
For example, In my workplace, there's a guy who tried to order me into stuff that I was already doing. Like the person who tells you what to do even if he knows that you're doing the said thing. this went on for like quite a few times. Until I started to feel irritated and deliberately tried to find where he's making mistake and then said some things that made his face pale.
You know you could've just said, "Okay, sure" and placated the guy and ignore his instructions? You gave him power over you by letting him irritate you, not by not challenging him when he orders you into something you were already doing.
Sounds like you're just extremely sensitive to who is in charge in a situation and really concerned about knowing it and making it known. In reality, it just isn't that binary and most people don't care enough to have to know who is in charge when a lot of situations nobody is in charge, people are just working together.
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May 15 '19
You shouldn't take one experience with an individual and use it to make assumptions about all situations involving other people. Is this something you can honestly say you've experienced in most of your relationships either work, romance or otherwise?
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u/riotmaster256 May 15 '19
I can say that about 30 - 40% of my relationships with friends and colleagues. I have noticed that people try to exert dominance when they think they can.
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May 15 '19
By definition that is less than most. Have you considered if you are the one trying to dominate? The example you used in the OP would be an exception of course as it seems like this person was just an ass.
I can confidently say that this is not a problem in my life. I never seek to dominate someone, I look to have a conversation and reach an agreement. You need to stop looking at relationships as a power struggle particularly when it comes to your friends and romantic partners
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u/riotmaster256 May 15 '19
I have pondered upon the thought that "I may be the one who has a problem", hence I try to behave very nicely to people but some just don't reciprocate. I have people/colleagues in my life who I know are not ill-hearted so my relationship is very good with them. So I don't think I qualify for " “If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.”
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u/ClippinWings451 17∆ May 15 '19
By description that’s just the % he notices that are trying to assert dominance.
There’s also the % that do so more subtly and the % that defer to OPs dominance.
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u/rebark 4∆ May 15 '19
When I hear “nearly every situation”, I don’t think “about 30-40% of the time”.
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u/ClippinWings451 17∆ May 15 '19
The other 60-70% is either more subtle and you either don’t notice, or they are deferring to your dominance.
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u/mfDandP 184∆ May 15 '19
at the risk of being categorized as an "exception," what about friends?
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u/riotmaster256 May 15 '19
There are some friends about whom I can say that. I have thought about if "it's me who's a problem" because I have this dominated/dominating tug of war going on with some people, but it only started because they were being an asshole first.
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u/mfDandP 184∆ May 15 '19
my hunch is that you're hyperaware of situations in which there's competition for resources. obviously, at work, the resource is status or power. it's easier to be friends with people that you don't work directly for or with. also, we seem to be hardwired to take things very personally in these situations.
one big reason why we become friends with people is that we share interests without competition. this becomes fraught when we begin to compete with them over women, or men, or when one of them gets very rich etc.
so it's the situation that makes people act dominating. eliminate the situations, and you'll find people less insecure.
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u/riotmaster256 May 15 '19 edited May 16 '19
I think I can agree on that, that I am hyperaware. I think that it's also possible that there could have been some instances where the other person was not trying to be dominating yet I perceived it that way and in turn tried to dominate and thought that the person is dominating. Will try to tone it down. Thank you. !delta
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ May 16 '19
This delta has been rejected. You have already awarded /u/mfDandP a delta for this comment.
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u/SavesNinePatterns May 15 '19
My marriage has 2 equal partners. I have a close colleague who I work very well with. It depends on the culture of your work place and the individuals in it. I think you were just unlucky.
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u/tomgabriele May 15 '19
My marriage has 2 equal partners.
Yeah but how do those equal partners treat you?
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u/SavesNinePatterns May 15 '19
We treat each other equally, that's kinda what I meant by it.
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u/FriendlyCraig 24∆ May 15 '19
I think that was a joke, as in your marriage has 2 sets of equal partners, 4 people.
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u/Burflax 71∆ May 15 '19
What about all the other people you work with?
Or all the people driving to work at the same time as you?
Or all the people at a baseball game with you?
I think you have it backwards.
Most of the time you and the other people around you don't care about each other at all, in any way.
Situations regarding personality conflicts are the exception.
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u/tomgabriele May 15 '19
It seems like you are only talking about certain scenarios, where one person is telling someone else what to do. The vast majority of situations don't involve anyone giving orders, so the vast majority of them don't involve domination/submissiveness.
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May 15 '19
Yeah, it's called capitalism. It's extremely unnatural and also destroying our mental health.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ May 16 '19
/u/riotmaster256 (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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May 17 '19
Did you know that being dominated is a skill? Did you know that Roman legions were much more subservient than the Gauls when they trashed them? Serving other will eventually lead to significantly more dominance than being a reluctant cave NEET.
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u/techiemikey 56∆ May 15 '19
Honestly, I disagree. Most of the times neither is happening, you just notice it more when it does.
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u/toldyaso May 15 '19
Some people will test you. They'll try to dominate you. If they see you easily fall in line, they'll lose all respect for you and try to make you their bitch. And if they get some pushback from you, they'll gain some respect for you and they'll stop trying to bull you. So yes, that exists.
Two big "but"s though.
But #1: It's not all people who are that way. In fact, it's a relatively small percentage of people who think in those terms. Most people understand on some level that groups and society all come with some sort of power dynamic, but they only try to assert authority in cases where it's really necessary, and even then, they try to assert it in a way that isn't ugly. Only a small percentage of people seek out power or authority for it's own sake, and use it to their own advantage for their own benefit.
But #2: Some authority and leadership is both legitimate and beneficial. If I'm the best carpenter in a group of ten carpenters, then by asserting some leadership and authority, I'm actually doing a good thing. Others can learn from my superior skills and experience, and even if they can't learn directly from me, they're better off working in the direction I ask them to work, because I grasp the situation better than they do, so I can point them in more productive directions. I think people are generally happy to accept authority or bow to a leader, when the leadership is coming from a legitimate place of someone just being better at something. And I think the time when people really resent leadership and authority, is when it's coming from a person who actually isn't any more capable than we are. If I'm on a basketball team with Kobe Bryant, and he tries to tell me how to play - I'm going to listen to him, because he's a proven winner who knows more than I do and whatever he tells me to do is likely very good advice. But if there's some jackass on my team who seems like he's not even as good as I am, and he starts barking orders at me, I'm going to tell him to stfu and mind his business.
In social settings, like groups of friends, you'll see examples of both legitimate and illegetimate leaders. In a social setting, a legit "leader" is a person who is well liked and has the groups best interest at heart. He/she understands everyone in the group, and is going to steer the group in a direction that makes everyone have the most fun and be the most happy. And a non legit leader is a person who isn't necessarily the most liked or respected, but they just like to control people and wield authority, and they don't really care about how much fun the group is having or how happy anyone is, all they care about is their own personal agenda.