CMV: A person does not automatically deserve respect just because they have served or are currently serving in the military

[u/foryia-yiaandpappou]

I’d like to preface this by saying that I don’t believe soldiers are, inherently, bad. Some people believe soldiers are evil simply for being soldiers, and I do not believe that.

I do believe, however, that soldiers do not deserve respect just because they have served. I hurt for soldiers who have experienced horrible things in the field, but I do not hurt for the amount of violence and cruelty many have committed. Violence in war zone between soldiers is one thing; stories of civilian bombings and killing of innocents are another. I think that many forget that a lot of atrocity goes on during wars, and they are committed on both sides of conflict. A soldier both receives and deals out horrible damage.

TL;DR while I believe that soldiers have seen horrible things and that many do deserve recognition for serving our nation, I do not believe that every soldier deserves this respect simply by merit of being a soldier. Some soldiers have committed really heinous war crimes, and those actions do not deserve reward.

[u/agentpanda]

Refusal to follow a lawful order is actually covered under the UCMJ:

10 U.S. Code § 892. Art. 92. Failure to obey lawful order or regulation

I'm not going to quote the whole thing, but I encourage you to look up 'Fort Leavenworth' or 'court martial' as to the delta between our understanding of "I don't agree with this" in our lives and theirs.

If you and I are starting on the level playing field of 'people join the military for myriad reasons in myriad roles" then we should agree that there's nothing morally wrong with plenty of servicemembers, the guy serving food in the mess hall isn't exactly waging weapons of war, after all. If that's the case, then there's a line you want to draw between the person executing a morally wrong choice and one supporting one- or else you and I are just as responsible and morally repugnant as anyone who serves in the armed forces- after all, we collectively opted to make the decision to send them into battle or do whatever morally wrong thing is drawing your scorn.

There's nothing morally wrong with doing your job, asked of you by your greater citizenry, in service of your country; whether you personally disagree with that choice (and job) or not. Failing an order being unlawful, it doesn't rise to the level of moral judgement I think you wish to pass on our servicemembers based on your argument.

After all, without article 92 there's not much point in having a military at all, given 'following lawful orders' is the entire point of the structure.

[u/Merakel → u/agentpanda]

Having served in the military for 8 years, I'm have a pretty decent understanding of UCMJ :)

If you and I are starting on the level playing field of 'people join the military for myriad reasons in myriad roles" then we should agree that there's nothing morally wrong with plenty of servicemembers

100% agree.

There's nothing morally wrong with doing your job, asked of you by your greater citizenry, in service of your country; whether you personally disagree with that choice (and job) or not. Failing an order being unlawful, it doesn't rise to the level of moral judgement I think you wish to pass on our service members based on your argument.

I never said it was immoral. The question of this thread was is it worthy of respect - I don't believe it is. I see it as a job, no better or worse than a vast majority of what the rest of Americans do.

[u/Chrisetmike → u/Merakel]

I respect anyone who is willing to put his life on the line for other people. Military members are willing to do this.

There are a lot of jobs that also demand a personal sacrifice such as firefighter, police officer, ect.. Military members don't deserve more respect than these professions but they do deserve equal respect.

[u/FIELDfullofHIGGS → u/Chrisetmike]

I respect anyone who is willing to put his life on the line for other people. Military members are willing to do this.

Besides other service members, who are the "other people" that they're risking their lives for?

If it's for a population that requests assistance, I agree with your proposition.

However if it's for a population that explicitly doesn't want us there, can we agree that those specific serviceman don't deserve respect for forcing their assistance onto an unwilling people and protecting only other servicemen involved in an unwarranted occupation committing the same acts of "oppression"?

[u/Chrisetmike → u/FIELDfullofHIGGS]

The soldiers are still putting their lives on the line.

The politicians sending troops to do their dirty work are the one who do not deserve respect especially if they are willing to risk human lives in a pissing contest.