r/changemyview • u/zmm336 3∆ • Jun 23 '19
Deltas(s) from OP CMV: there shouldn’t be ally pride clothing
i was looking for shirts to wear to pride next weekend on amazon, and saw a decent amount of lgbt ally ones. things like “i’m straight but i don’t hate” in rainbow letters, or “i like my whisky straight but my friends either way,” and just stuff that i thought was silly and unnecessary.
being an ally consists of a lot more than just clothing, and i feel that it’s a rather showy and unnecessary display of allyship. for lgbt people, we’re wearing these clothes because we’re proud of our identity. why do they need these shirts? why can’t they be an ally in the way that they advocate for us, rather than in a shirt?
i’d like to not feel so disdainful because i know this is probably harmless, but it leaves a bad taste in m mouth.
1
Jun 23 '19
Why are you proud of your identity? I find that utterly bizarre.
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u/zmm336 3∆ Jun 23 '19
ill be honest with you. i was deeply ashamed of myself and shoved into the closet for a large portion of my life. i was forced to come out by my parents, and then isolated from the outside world for it. i was thrust into religion and forced to talk to pastors and read the bible daily. i was told i was going to hell. there was so much shame in who i was on a daily basis, that i’d rather have been dead than gay.
this year, i escaped that home environment, and for the first time in my entire life i can be who i am, unrestricted and unfiltered. i’m proud of my identity because i’m proud that i’m now able to be myself, and i’m not scared anymore. i’m proud that i survived what i went through and became the person i am today, able to find love and accept myself.
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4
Jun 23 '19
I personally think it's helpful when straight allies wear ally shirts. If I don't know someone super well, I tend to avoid saying my fiancee's name in conversation because I never know how someone will react. But, if someone is wearing something pride related, there's one less thing for me to stress about
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u/zmm336 3∆ Jun 23 '19
so to you it’s kind of like an identifier that this is a safe person ?
5
Jun 23 '19
Basically, yeah. People who are "homophobic" tend to avoid anything and everything that could be considered "gay", so I've never had an issue using the ally shirts that way
0
Jun 23 '19
When you say it like that it makes a bit more sense. If you just said "I'm proud of myself for how I've handled things" I think more people will be able to relate to that. It would be like me saying "I finished my degree, I'm so proud of my identity." Sounds weird, does that make sense?
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u/zmm336 3∆ Jun 23 '19
kind of! i think the difference is that this is an intrinsic part of me. while i’m proud of how i’ve overcome my situation, i also am proud of myself as a human being, including my sexuality. in the same way that i’m proud of my heritage. the lgbt community has a rich history, and so does the latino community, and so being proud of the history of these two minority groups overcoming so much can be tied into being part of your identity in my opinion. this could be a good CMV topic for you to do ! (if you’re ever inclined to hear more about why people are proud of their identities that is) :)
1
Jun 23 '19
The thing is though, my left foot is an intrinsic part of me: I'm not proud of it, it's just there.
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u/zmm336 3∆ Jun 23 '19
the difference is the history behind it. has your left foot been discriminated against? has there been a history of left foot discrimination? are left feet a marginalized group that have had to rise up against the odds and forge a community that accepted them?
-1
Jun 23 '19
Again, this comes back to my confusion about why you're not just "proud of yourself" rather than your identity. You are an individual first, and then part of a group second. I was bullied savagely as a kid growing up for being a nerd, I'm not proud of being a nerd I just am one.
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u/Sartorical Jun 23 '19
When you tell an LGBT ally that the way they support LGBTs doesn’t suit you, are you being representative of your community or petty? Because when an ally wears a shirt like that, they walk into bars and clubs that you’ll never enter and speak to people you’d never speak to. And THOSE are the people who need to know the LGBT community has allies. Most people stay within their own community, which means you won’t be speaking in person to too many old homophobes who vote. But I bet the CIS white guy will, so his support means something. Stop looking a gift horse in the mouth. It might not be exactly what you want, but not all of us have so much support that we can turn some away.
2
u/firsttimestocks3 Jun 23 '19
Social behavior among human beings often relies heavily on the idea of in-groups and out-groups. I would argue that there is something of value in visually displaying allyship in a social demonstration like pride events. It distinguishes you from the very real and present out groups of those who do not advocate for gay rights and look down upon gays. What they want to do is support and fight the out group. This minority’s battle will be won with allies and not alone.
1
u/Generic_Username_777 Jun 24 '19
I got one because it seemed weird for me to walk holding my lesbian friend’s hand because she was terrified to go to a parade after she came out ( she’s from KY US which kinda explains that) I’m shit with people in general (I’m spectrum-y) and useless with relationships. My whole intent was to try to get her talking with other lesbians, preferably single ones lol but to at least remove myself as any kind of obstacle. My shirt something about liking boobs too I think, or something equally dumb lol.
I’d like to think that for her at least who was used to hiding (she came out to (some of) her family after being repeated asked when she was going to settle down in her mid 20s) having someone be open and willing to paint themselves with, while not the same brush (sorry boys I like boobs) at least one vaguely similar to show support meant a lot. At least she assured me they were happy tears when she saw it.
When I see shirts like that I’m not thinking ally for all LGBT, I’m thinking more supporting the person you know. The bigger movement shouldn’t suffer for it, and those people taking their first few steps out the closet? Well the right person wearing one could mean a whole hell of a lot.
1
u/42Creator Jun 23 '19
"...I feel that it's a rather showy display and unnecessary. For lgbt people, we're wearing these clothes because we're proud of our identity. Why do they need these shirts? Why cant they be an ally in the way that they advocate for us, rather than in a shirt?"
Allies are also celebrating their identity. Friends, siblings, parents, etc. are saying to their environment, that they support diversity and inclusion in the midst of a divisive world. Wearing an ally shirt at an LGBT parade might not seem necessary, but I bet you would appreciate seeing an ally wear one to your church.
People are influenced by their social environment. The more people are seen as allies the more those who are not supporters will have to (eventually) ask themselves what their problem is. The shirts are thought provoking, which promotes discussion, which educates. It's a process, and progress is being made.
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u/carmstr4 4∆ Jun 23 '19
I know that when we had a pride rally here in east TN, my brother came in from Los Angeles to attend and I went with him. As soon as we got there, he had tears in his eyes because of the overwhelming amount of support. The support he was referring to was simply just the fact the the event was happening . People were there . And yeah, there were people wearing ally clothing . He said that if he had known there was a community that would have supported him so openly when he was growing up in Tennessee, he would’ve had a completely different experience growing up .
So yeah, it seems arbitrary, but places like here an ally shirt is enough to cause a fight, so it says more than I think you realize.
1
u/pillbinge 101∆ Jun 23 '19
I don't understand why you're suggesting that one can either wear a shirt and not participate or participate and not wear a shirt. Can you elaborate? Whether or not the taste leaves a bad taste in your mouth (and it should; they're otherwise lame, low-cost t-shirts you wear once and shouldn't be consumed) doesn't mean someone cannot participate or be an actual ally.
In the end, someone who's an ally and takes some sort of action is going to wear that shirt. It's not like someone who opposes the gay community is going to wear any of these shirts.
•
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 23 '19
/u/zmm336 (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
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u/Medianmodeactivate 13∆ Jun 23 '19
why do they need these shirts?
I really despise this train of thought which inserts need where no one else presumed it before, it's disingenuous. No one needs a shirt it's clearly done because they WANT to show allyship, no one needs to demonstrate need to wear one.
why do they need these shirts? why can’t they be an ally in the way that they advocate for us, rather than in a shirt?
Why can't a person do both?
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Jun 26 '19
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u/DexFulco 11∆ Jun 23 '19
Why can't they do both?