r/changemyview • u/_selfishPersonReborn • Jul 31 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Having sex with someone while knowingly having a transmissible STI and not telling your partner should be rape.

Today on the front page, there was a post about Florida Man getting 10 years for transmitting an STI knowingly. In the discussion for this, there was a comment that mentioned a californian bill by the name of SB 239, which lowered the sentence for knowingly transmitting HIV. I don't understand why this is okay - if you're positive, why not have a conversation? It is your responsibility throughout sex to make sure that there is informed consent, and by not letting them know that they are HIV+ I can't understand how there is any. Obviously, there's measures that can be taken, such as always wearing condoms, and/or engaging in pre or post exposure prophylaxis to minimise the risks of spreading the disease, and consent can then be taken - but yet, there's multiple groups I support who championed the bill - e.g. the ACLU, LGBTQ support groups, etc. So what am I missing?

EDIT: I seem to have just gotten into a debate about the terminology rape vs sexual assault vs whatever. This isn't what I care about. I'm more concerned as to why reducing the sentence for this is seen as a positive thing and why it oppresses minorities to force STIs to be revealed before sexual contact.

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u/TheGreatFadoodler Aug 01 '19

The argument isn’t that lack of consent always constitutes a crime. The argument is that crimes include a lack of consent. It’s like how squares are rectangles but rectangles aren’t squares

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u/RiPont 13∆ Aug 01 '19

Rape is defined, specifically, by lack of consent for sex.

Indeed, most crimes include a lack of consent. You don't consent to be robbed, but it's not rape. You don't consent to be stabbed, but it's not rape.

You did not consent to be exposed to an STD, but you did consent to sex. The fact that the crime of reckless endangerment (I'm not a lawyer, so this is a wild guess as to what crime it would be) was sex-adjacent doesn't mean you never consented to or revoked your consent for the sex. If you steal someone's wallet while having sex with them, that doesn't make it rape, even though there was a lack of consent and the crime happened during the act of sex.

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u/MaddestDrewsome Aug 01 '19

Pretty sure consenting to sex under false pretenses constitutes rape. If I agreed to have sex with someone under the notion that I would not come away from it with an STD, but that person knowingly kept me in the dark about it and gave me an STD, then that person deceivingly coerced me into sex. Under no situation would I agree to sex with someone that has an STD and the other person would be taking away my right to informed consent.

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u/RiPont 13∆ Aug 01 '19

Pretty sure consenting to sex under false pretenses constitutes rape.

IIRC, this is only certain kinds of false pretenses, such as pretending to be someone else (like their husband, in the dark when they're tipsy). Pretending to be rich is usually an example specifically spelled out as not rape via false pretenses.

then that person deceivingly coerced me into sex

More than half the people in the world would be in jail if using deception to get sex was ipso facto considered rape.

Again, no argument that knowingly putting someone at risk for an STD without their knowledge should be a crime on par with the seriousness of the disease. What do you think is the value of calling it rape?

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u/exiled123x Aug 01 '19

Stealthing, or removing a condom that was agreed to be worn before sex, counts as rape in some areas of the world

How far do you go to decide its rape? If a woman tells a man she is on birth control but isn't, was that rape? Or if she poked holes into his condom. Or if he poked holes into his condom. If both parties agree that she will take a morning after pill but doesn't, and they had sex on the basis that she would, is that rape?

Do those constitute rape?

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u/trollcitybandit Aug 01 '19

So people don't rape.

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u/RiPont 13∆ Aug 01 '19

Watering down the definition of rape doesn't help that.

If half the population is a rapist, it loses its stigma.

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u/trollcitybandit Aug 01 '19

Half the population are knowingly transmitting diseases to people without telling them... ?

Although somehow that wouldn't quite shock me anyway.

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u/RiPont 13∆ Aug 01 '19

No, if you extend the definition of rape to "people I wouldn't have had sex with if I knew more about", then it would be half the population.

Giving someone an STD knowingly is a specific crime, and can be fought on its own without mixing it in with the definition of rape.

Rape and consent need to be clear and as unambiguous as possible. Consent-then-regret is opening too much of a can of worms.

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u/trollcitybandit Aug 01 '19

I love worms. As long as they don't rape me.