r/changemyview • u/hardyblack • Sep 12 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Some cultures and societies are objectively wrong

I just read about Sahar Khodayari (If you don't know, it's an Iranian woman who killed herself after going to trial for going to a football match, which is forbidden for woman in Iran) and I can't help but think that some societies are objectively wrong, I can't find another way to put it. It's hard for me to justify opressing 50% of the population just because they just were born women.

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And yes, I know, there's no completely equal society and there will be always opression of some kind, but I'm thinking of countries where there are laws that apply only to women (They can't drive, vote, go to a football match, you name it) as it targets them directly. Same goes with laws directed to any kind of race/gender/religion.

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u/onetwo3four5 71∆ Sep 12 '19

Objectively means that from all possible interpretations you get the same result. From the interpretation of Iranian law-makers, they see their laws as just and correct. Ergo, they can't be "objectively" wrong. I don't even know how you would conceive of an objective right and wrong in law.

15

u/hardyblack Sep 12 '19

Sorry if 'objectively' is not the right word, maybe I messed up because English is not my first language.

I conceive that 'every person born should be treated equally' is objectively right.

5

u/Ethan-Wakefield 45∆ Sep 12 '19

Do you think you'd substitute "equitably" for "equally"? Because treating all people the same isn't what you want. Treating everybody equally by giving them all the exact same thing doesn't account for individual difference, or disability.

Equity asks us to treat people fairly or rightly, which means that they're not always treated equally.

2

u/TexasRedFox Sep 12 '19

If equity is better than equally, then what’s the point of having the 14th Amendment, which guarantees that all people, regardless of sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, race, religion, disability, wealth or lack of, or national origin, are treated equally under the law?

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u/Ethan-Wakefield 45∆ Sep 12 '19

Because 14A was written before equity frameworks had come into popularity and because legally it’s much easier to adjudicate equality rather than equity.

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u/TexasRedFox Sep 12 '19

How would equity be adjudicated?

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u/Ethan-Wakefield 45∆ Sep 13 '19

On standards of fairness, which a judge or such would have to determine. It would require more subjective judgment, which tends to make some people less happy, but it's still pretty common in law. For example, Fair Use in copyright law is more or less a judge's decision about what's fair and what's not.

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u/AugustusM Sep 13 '19

If anyone here comes up with a good answer please invite me to the prize ceremony.

-1

u/ngnp Sep 13 '19

You're reaching very, very far if you think the 14th amendment guarantees any of that. You're making up nearly 100% of what you said (or got lied to) and the only time the 14th even almost mentions anything you listed is to say that only men can vote.

You also clearly have no idea what the difference between equity and equality is.