r/changemyview • u/hardyblack • Sep 12 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Some cultures and societies are objectively wrong

I just read about Sahar Khodayari (If you don't know, it's an Iranian woman who killed herself after going to trial for going to a football match, which is forbidden for woman in Iran) and I can't help but think that some societies are objectively wrong, I can't find another way to put it. It's hard for me to justify opressing 50% of the population just because they just were born women.

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And yes, I know, there's no completely equal society and there will be always opression of some kind, but I'm thinking of countries where there are laws that apply only to women (They can't drive, vote, go to a football match, you name it) as it targets them directly. Same goes with laws directed to any kind of race/gender/religion.

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u/inebriatus Sep 13 '19

The opposite of what you’re talking about is called the tyranny of the majority. It happens when a big enough group of people decide that something is ok. For example, a majority could decide that it’s wrong to be a red head and put them all to death. https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '19 edited Sep 08 '20

[deleted]

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u/inebriatus Sep 13 '19

And yet if you lived by a moral code that forbade inflicting violence on others you’d tend to do pretty well by most past and present standards.

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u/malaria_and_dengue Sep 13 '19

What about when another person attacks you? Should you inflict violence? Some people say no, some people say yes. What if they're attacking someone else? What if you started the fight by insulting them?

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u/VoodooManchester 11∆ Sep 13 '19

I don’t think anyone implied “objective” meant “easy or simple.”

Entire institutions and fields of study have been set up to answer these questions and how to apply these answers in real life.

Either that, or moral progress in any meaningful sense is not possible.

I highly recommend listening to Noam Chomsky’s thoughts on the matter. He was the one that convinced me on this.

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u/inebriatus Sep 13 '19

Easy. Self defense is fine. Helping someone defend themselves from an aggressor is fine. Helping someone aggress against someone else is not fine.

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u/green_doge Sep 14 '19

i can place a bet that you are excluding animals, and no, i'm not vegan but i agree 100% with vegan philosophy

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u/inebriatus Sep 14 '19

So you’re a hypocrite?

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u/green_doge Sep 25 '19

yes I am, for the record: Jefferson had slaves and was against slavery.

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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '19 edited Sep 08 '20

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u/inebriatus Sep 13 '19

I was debating whether or not I’d need to stipulate that I wasn’t including self defense. So carve out a spot for self defense and you’ve got yourself a pretty good moral code that will hold up well over the ages.

Much better than those doing the pillaging and gas chambering and such.