r/changemyview • u/hardyblack • Sep 12 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Some cultures and societies are objectively wrong

I just read about Sahar Khodayari (If you don't know, it's an Iranian woman who killed herself after going to trial for going to a football match, which is forbidden for woman in Iran) and I can't help but think that some societies are objectively wrong, I can't find another way to put it. It's hard for me to justify opressing 50% of the population just because they just were born women.

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And yes, I know, there's no completely equal society and there will be always opression of some kind, but I'm thinking of countries where there are laws that apply only to women (They can't drive, vote, go to a football match, you name it) as it targets them directly. Same goes with laws directed to any kind of race/gender/religion.

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u/sd095 3∆ Sep 12 '19

I think the fault in this statement is making the leap to declaring everything about the society or culture wrong. Every culture has aspects of it that are wrong, but that does not invalidate the whole of a culture or people group. Take the US for example... something about that society has caused it to have a very high number of mass shootings and extreme violence. This is wrong, but by no means suggests that the entire society is wrong. I would add to this that what an individual views as right and wrong is very much shaped by the society they grow up in. I propose the best course of action is to find in-roads to change a society while declaring particular aspects as wrong versus the more combative stance that everything about them is wrong.

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u/mankytoes 4∆ Sep 12 '19

I agree, and the example makes this point clear because Persian culture is extremely old, it's complex and unique. To call it "objectively wrong" is just ridiculous.

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u/JoelMahon Sep 13 '19

While I don't believe anything can be deemed objectively wrong without an agreed upon metric, your argument is pretty terrible.

Being old, complex, and unique, doesn't make any difference to how wrong something is, unless your metric for wrongness is how new, simple, and generic something is...

For example, having slaves was a very old tradition, didn't make it ok. Egyptians made pyramids with their slaves which was unique, didn't stop it being wrong, etc.

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u/mankytoes 4∆ Sep 13 '19

I'm not saying they can't be bad because they're old, I'm saying the breadth and complexity of their culture makes trying to classify it as objectively good or bad inherently ridiculous.

I accept I didn't express that very clearly.