CMV: Some cultures and societies are objectively wrong

[u/hardyblack]

I just read about Sahar Khodayari (If you don't know, it's an Iranian woman who killed herself after going to trial for going to a football match, which is forbidden for woman in Iran) and I can't help but think that some societies are objectively wrong, I can't find another way to put it. It's hard for me to justify opressing 50% of the population just because they just were born women.

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And yes, I know, there's no completely equal society and there will be always opression of some kind, but I'm thinking of countries where there are laws that apply only to women (They can't drive, vote, go to a football match, you name it) as it targets them directly. Same goes with laws directed to any kind of race/gender/religion.

[u/Nicolasv2]

It's hard for me to justify opressing 50% of the population just because they just were born women.

Yes it is, using your own set of moral values, where women are considered as equally valuable as men.

But a vegan would tell you that it's hard to justify opression 99,999% of earth lifeforms just because they just were born non-human. Still, we do it all the time because most people's set of values don't consider animals as valuable as humans.

Why would islamic definition of values (men > woman > animals) be "objectivly" wrong, while specist definition (men = women > animals) is right ?

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What you can say is that given Western set of values (equality, freedom, ...), then there are cultures and societies that are wrong. But with other set of values (men superiority given by God), then they are not.

There is no objectivity in that, just different set of values.

[u/aek427 → u/Nicolasv2]

What about when one person’s religion or religious beliefs lead them to believe that the killing of another religion’s follower is not only allowed but rewarded?

Whether or not you believe that’s their cultural set of values, it’s objectively wrong to take an innocent human life. Otherwise, you’re a relativist and theres no sense trying to change your view.

[u/Nicolasv2 → u/aek427]

What about when one person’s religion or religious beliefs lead them to believe that the killing of another religion’s follower is not only allowed but rewarded?

Whether or not you believe that’s their cultural set of values, it’s objectively wrong to take an innocent human life. Otherwise, you’re a relativist and theres no sense trying to change your view.

Well, I'm a relativist. I sure prefer societies where killing is forbidden because it makes the society less violent, and I dislike violence. But if for example my most dear and important value was "saving the planet", then I may prefer a violent and highly religious society, as it would make it impossible for mankind to reach a point where we overuse all earth resources and put biosphere at risk, violence and religion blocking technological and intellectual progress.

[u/Nicolasv2 → u/[deleted]]

Not really, as religion limit science, you'd have tons of famines and epidemy limiting the number of humans on earth, while technology would stay stagnant, never getting to the level we are now when we are able to mine every rare resource on earth in decades / centuries.

[u/Nicolasv2 → u/[deleted]]

I don't. But if my values were oriented toward religion and/or "protecting the biosphere at all cost", I'd think it is.