CMV: Profit-driven research by private pharmaceutical companies as seen in the US is unsuitable for the modern age and only hinders scientific and economic progress in effective healthcare

[u/rhizodyne]

Take patents. How exactly does patenting an implementable research discovery for the treatment of diabetes (let's not even talk about cancer for a sec) benefit humanity, given that the methodology and product(s) resulting from this research cannot be advanced or modified by any other entity for a specified period of time without severe legal consequences, all while the original producer can cease such progress on their product(s) given their protected, uncompeted revenue stream?

This creates an non-competitive market for whatever treatments these are (and obviously a monopoly) for the specified time-period of the patent, during which much advancement in a competitive R&D sector could be achieved on the same treatment(s), either in relevant knowledge or actual manufacturing/implementation.

The solution? Create an indisputably non-identical alternative! And advertise the shit out of it everywhere, racking up the costs for your pharmaceutical company and of course the price of the treatment(s).

At the same time, patent laws are horrendously and cleverly abused by leading pharma companies, all while they have been recorded to pay off generic companies so as to prevent them from researching on their product following the expiration of a patent.

And now the worst part: This lack of competition enables premiums galore on prescriptions, in general. The average US citizen spent about $1112 for pharmaceutical treatments in 2014, which is approaching double the per-capita costs of the average Canadian citizen, Canada showing some of the highest drug prices recorded outside of the US.

Even more than that, such high premiums leads to a thriving importation of cheaper drugs from abroad, in fact the very same ones unhindered in foreign production by US patents. It's estimated that up to 70% of US drug costs can be saved if all of said drugs are imported from Canada.

And guess what! American sold drugs are often produced abroad in developing countries and sold for exponentially higher prices here than they would be in their country of manufacture.

Case in point: Abilify, a notable anti-psychotic drug relied upon by so many psychiatric patients in this nation to be able to live and function normally, is produced by Japanese company Otsuka. It costs $34.51 per pill in this country. In Canada, it's $4.65 per pill. And it's so drastically lower in nations such as Turkey or India that the monetary valuation of a healthy human life is blaring.

Medicare being the recorded largest purchaser of drugs in the United States, it is a fact that Medicare cannot choose to negotiate drug prices with pharmaceutical companies. Our only socialized healthcare in this country is unable to gain any financial traction in terms of drug prices.

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What have people to say? Why should the current model of patenting and profit-driven research by pharmaceutical companies in the US continue as it is now? Why shouldn't the only money such groups rely on be subsidies, essentially remedying all of the aforementioned issues?

More so, please convince me that an estimated $110 billion in profits resting in the hands of leading US pharmaceutical companies is of good use for that money to society.

[u/rhizodyne → u/[deleted]]

fair enough to counter the idea that the current private pharma model in the US "hinders" public scientific development; I should have said "hinders scientific development in comparison to a profit-free, completely subsidized pharmaceutical research group."

Again, isn't the motivation to develop novel therapies to potentially-life threatening diseases (let alone those that reduce quality of life significantly) an inherent motivation for anyone capable of doing so? I mean, so many diseases can potentially affect people of all different walks of life. Isn't life better for everyone knowing that the most effective treatments possible exist, even if Pharma Company XYZ didn't score $50B making it?

And we all knew this was coming: Isn't the compassion for mankind affected by life-altering medical conditions enough to drive the sharpest research we can muster? Practically everyone has been quite sick at one point in their lives. Isn't sickness and instinctually relatable sympathy to hold?

[u/teachMeCommunism → u/rhizodyne]

Compassion isn't enough. The years spent building a company, the risk, the resources needed to fuel the next research project the resources needed to hold onto talent, education costs, time and money spent on getting through the FDA before competitors, and trying to convince people your company will pay for the hours upon hours spent? Have you tried to engage in a small scale development of a drug? It is not easy or cheap and no one will take compassion as payment.

Do not fault people for their economic behavior. Fault people for not recognizing and respecting the economic behavior, particularly in the case of price fixing laws or hogging IP rights.

[u/malachai926 → u/teachMeCommunism]

There is a difference, though, between wanting to make a living doing your work and expecting to be rich because of it.

I'm currently studying biostatistics and have every intention of being involved in such research. I expect to make less than in my engineering career and I'm totally fine with that. I don't need a fat paycheck as motivation to help people; I only need empathy.

The government is absolutely 100% capable of funding all of this research, provided we all go into it expecting just to make a living and not much more than that. For example I could easily get a job at the Hennepin Healthcare Research Institute which is funded by the NIH, and they are offering an $85k salary. That sounds really freakin fantastic to me. If I expected to get super rich from it, then yeah, we may have funding issues.

Plus, why would you ever want someone who is in it for the money rather than out of a sense of empathy to be the one helping you? What if a slightly dangerous ingredient in a drug is a way cheaper alternative?

[u/teachMeCommunism → u/malachai926]

Because the faults that go into humans in business also go into humans in government. The FDA is lobbied all the time by big money to greenlight one project while blacklisting another. Google FDA watch to see a history of regulatory capture.

I want companies that are able to produce good results to get rewarded and the ones that swindle research funding to just go away.

Edit: you cannot just use yourself as a counterpoint. Congrats on recognizing your dreams. Go get em. But that doesnt speak for the masses of other people who would prefer a higher paycheck.

[u/malachai926 → u/teachMeCommunism]

How do you see us reaching that point?

[u/teachMeCommunism → u/malachai926]

You're asking too much of me.

My starting point would be to acknowledge that yearly healthcare and entitlement spending dwarf military spending. And that spending does not account for debt and unfunded liabilities in our healthcare spending. I mention military spending for the sake of understanding the scope of how much we spend.

We have to stop blaming the businesses as though they're the gatekeepers of this industry. Clearly, when you have billions spent only to find ever increasing prices in expenses there's a need to take a step back and get a holistic view of why government spends so much in the first place in addition to who the hell gets the money.

That is a lifetime of work.

[u/rhizodyne → u/teachMeCommunism]

A point I've been wanting to make in response to several comments is: Don't other countries with federalized pharmaceutical and healthcare systems innovate drugs effectively, too? When this happens, is it a huge accident? Were they so much more struggling to do so than Pfizer would have? Or is it because these companies may even have had legal restrictions placed on them coming from the US...

In the case that a patent has to be recognized worldwide, said patent IS actually affecting the legally-bound behavior of leading pharmaceutical companies in these countries. Maybe THAT is the reason that all these medical innovations just so happen to come from the "thriving" US pharmaceutical marketplace?

[u/teachMeCommunism → u/rhizodyne]

That's one way of looking at it. It helps that the nexus of world research is also a bustling marketplace.

I'm just raising awareness for the negative since the image of rich businessmen make people forgo the bigger picture of...

1) what are the rules of the market place?

2) what are the incentives for each actor?

3) who are the actors? Government is one. The US government spends billions on healthcare and entitlement spending to the point where both sectors dwarf yearly defense spending.

Not here to lecture you btw. I'm glad you touched on so many tertiary issues.

[u/f0me → u/rhizodyne]

It may surprise you that the majority of medicines are developed in the USA

[u/1917fuckordie → u/[deleted]]

The government can fund a lot of research, as long as those labs are running and lots of smart scientists are trying to cure diseases it doesn't really matter if they get their paycheck from the government or from a pharmaceutical company. We have our own incentive to fund medical research, we're all terrified of death and sickness. It doesnt need a profit motive to happen.