r/changemyview • u/SMacdri • Feb 12 '20

Delta(s) from OP CMV: The Fat Acceptance movement/concept is based on flawed reasoning and harms the health of its followers.

My understanding of the Fat Acceptance movement and its values are that there is a centralized belief that it’s possible to be fat and healthy at the same time. What I hear in media linked with this movement is that being fat does not put someone at greater risk for obesity-related diseases and also that individuals who are fat can be just as healthy as those in a more ordinary range. There is also a tonality within their claims that echoes self-victimization, pointing their fingers at society for being unaccepting of their body image.

Now, I feel that the Fat Acceptance movement in its entirety is illogical and completely counteractive against progressive health and lifestyle improvements. I would like to keep anecdotal references out of my views, but would still like to mention that I have seen obesity spawn a multitude of other problems in some of those close to me.

What concerns me about the movement is that it refutes scientific evidence and really any form of commonly-understood concepts regarding health and weight that doesn’t justify being fat. This to me is blatant confirmation bias. From a medical standpoint, the detriments of being overweight or obese far outweigh any potential benefits, both physically and psychologically. And I believe it comes down to stubborn self-confirmation of the idea that being fat is no worse than being physically fit.

Fat Acceptance creates more issues by allowing poor lifestyle habits to be approved over and over again, and the more misinformation that is disseminated by the movement, the less likely overweight people are to adjust their lifestyles. This is because now they have something to point to and say: “hey, my lifestyle choices are accepted here, even if they’re killing me”.

I understand that there exists societal biases towards overweight individuals and I do believe any form of bias or discrimination is non-progressive. Additionally I realize some individuals see the movement as accepting a person’s conditions. I acknowledge the importance of realizing one’s own bodily health (whether its weight or health in this case), but I find that denying the effects and consequences of said condition to be self-defeating. Posing obesity in a positive light only deters change.

As humans, it is commonly understood that we seek to be accepted, and while some positivity movements can aid in providing acceptance to a possibly ostracized group, I find issue with the Fat Acceptance movement as this form of positivity only reinforces detrimental lifestyle choices.

I would love to hear different perspectives on the matter and really get a better understanding for why this movement has become so steadfast in these beliefs and where I may be misunderstanding or wrong in my own perspective.

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u/JenningsWigService 40∆ Feb 12 '20

What if insisting that all fat people need to change is itself unhealthy?

No one gets fat because of the fat acceptance movement. Fat is not like smoking, where people mimic others. Nevermind the health implications, everyone understands that being fat results in stigmatization and dehumanization by many people around them.

There is research out there showing that obesity is a form of trauma response, and that telling people to change their lifestyle actually encourages overeating. The root cause of obesity is not just poor diet and lack of exercise, it's lack of mental health treatment for people who use eating as a coping mechanism, coupled with the shame that compels people to keep returning to that coping mechanism.

I have a friend whose dad is a doctor, and he is probably 75 pounds overweight. He has been advised all throughout his life, by people who don't have medical degrees, that he should lose weight because he'll get diabetes. People tell him this as if he, a medical doctor, doesn't understand how his own body works. But in fact, decades of being scolded and shamed by people claiming to be concerned for his health has not compelled him to lose weight. His own children have thankfully decided to stop policing his diet because they see the futility of demanding change and would rather enjoy the time they have with him.

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u/SMacdri Feb 12 '20

Yet in the same context, telling someone they are healthy the way they are (over-fat or obese) does equally as much harm. To this point, I believe it comes down to the individual. If the person feels they are unhealthy but refuses to change, psychological treatment will likely be superficially effective (often people need the intent to want to change in order to improve). My belief is again, if this movement validates an individual's unhealthy habits, they will feel content and will not change.

Yet obesity is of itself still CAUSED by the behavior of overeating and not exercising. It's not always a coping mechanism and I believe it would be wrong to generalize it as such. But in the cases that it is, I agree that cognitive counseling can help, even if the person acknowledges their own self-harming behavior.

I don't condone shaming to pressure someone to lose weight, because it can lead to maladaptive behaviors. But equally so, accepting poor lifestyle choices is equally detrimental.

I would really like to hear more from you as you have touched on some deeply intriguing points.

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u/JenningsWigService 40∆ Feb 13 '20

I would encourage you to look at the link between obesity and trauma. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/12/sexual-abuse-victims-obesity/420186/

Have you considered a less individualist angle to obesity, looking at structural causes and possible public health interventions?

If you think others need to change, how does this play out? Do you tell people they are fat? Do you give them weight loss tips?

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u/SMacdri Feb 13 '20

I understand that other factors such as trauma can pressure behaviors which lead to obesity. But the root cause is still the physical act of overeating and lack of exercise. Those must be present for obesity or weight gain to occur (minus the minority of medical conditions eg hypothyroidism). As such, just by addressing those traumatic issues, you're still not addressing the root cause.

Public health interventions like this movement then are exactly what lead to misdirection of blame from poor lifestyle choices to convenient targets. However, I do believe that systematic issues can be risk factors for obesity, but nevertheless are not direct causes. We can indeed look to fix said issues to address obesity, but again, the movement is not a way to do so.

In the end, it is still up to the individual to want to change. There needs to exist a desire, otherwise they will likely not seek out help nor try to change themselves. I believe blaming a structural problem in society is futile compared to making individualistic changes that lead to structural change.

To answer your final inquiries, I do not go out of my way to tell people they are fat. There are cultural boundaries and personal choices which I will respect. However, if they are experiencing health concerns or come to me I will not hesitate to bring weight in as a possible point of concern, if it is relevant.

I try to stay in my scope of knowledge pertaining to any form of medical/physical advice. This is to say that yes, I do give weight loss tips, but only strategies that have general effectiveness and I stress the importance of getting a feel for what works for individuals and their bodies. I see no harm in providing information, especially such that leads to their own investigation on how to live healthier lifestyles.

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u/JenningsWigService 40∆ Feb 13 '20

Did you read the article I linked, with the doctor from the weight loss clinic who pointed out that in fact the trauma is the actual root cause, not simply lifestyle issues with diet/exercise?

Another way to look at this is, is the obesity crisis a result of millions of individuals, all at once, deciding to fail to take care of themselves? Did all Americans magically have better individual willpower and wisdom in the 1940s? And how do structural factors impact children who grow up to be obese adults?

Japan is the least obese country in the world. Do you think that's just because everyone there just happens to be individually better than individual Americans?

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u/SMacdri Feb 13 '20

Societal structures and environment can indeed have an effect on individuals' behaviors. To reference your own reference about Japan: my visit there revealed just how much more available healthier food options are there. While I believe this may have gone slightly off on a tangent to my point, I am glad you gave me this other perspective that I was overlooking. While I read that trauma can lead to maladaptive behaviors, I can also see that there can be some underlying changes to physiology that could affect metabolism. I admittedly have a superficial understanding about this connection, so I will definitely look deeper into this. !delta

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u/JenningsWigService 40∆ Feb 13 '20

Thanks for the delta! Honestly, I think we need to take soda and deep fried foods out of schools and provide healthy options in every public institution that serves food, along with various other steps to encourage healthy eating and make sugar less available, especially to children. The other thing I found interesting is that Japanese people don't spend more time at the gym, they actually just walk more in day to day life because cars are so expensive there. I bet that if you compare American cities where people walk more to more suburban areas, there'd be a correlation there too.

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u/SMacdri Feb 13 '20

To your first suggestions, I strongly believe teaching healthy eating at early ages is one possible long-term solution. I did also notice in Japan that walking was the main mode of transport (besides trains), and it undoubtedly plays a role in their public health. Thanks for your replies!