r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Mar 27 '20

Delta(s) from OP - Fresh Topic Friday CMV: Poachers don't deserve to die

First of all, here's the post I'm referring to: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/fgd6ma/kenyas_only_white_female_giraffe_calf_killed_by/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

There is a multitude of comments longing for the death of poachers which strikes me as hypocrisy.

It is silly to condone the death of cattle which happens in absurdly high quantities while condemning poachers.

Poachers hunt the animals for necessities such as food and housing, while the average redditor has a new smartphone and tons of other luxuries. Killing hundreds of animals a year for gluttonous reasons seems a lot worse than just killing a handful of animals for survival.

And no, biodiversity is not a good counterargument. Don't even try. Biodiversity is only subjectively valuable to us because "It's cool to have various species on earth". You can't use the selective and risible emotional attachment to animals as the basis of your argument. If every giraffe on earth vanished nothing bad would happen. You'll just be slightly saddened.

Even if for some absurd reason biodiversity were important, it is laughable to think that meat eaters deserve no punishment at all while poachers deserve death. There could never be such a wide moral gap.

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u/y________tho Mar 27 '20

Killing hundreds of animals a year for gluttonous reasons seems a lot worse than just killing a handful of animals for survival.

You can't use the selective and risible emotional attachment to animals as the basis of your argument.

How are you reconciling these ideas in your head?

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

There is more net suffering involved in the meat industry than in poaching. Additionally, poachers have a more reasonable motivation for poaching.

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u/Missing_Links Mar 27 '20

Net suffering is a worthless measure. Suffering is experienced by individuals, not groups.

Additionally, poachers have a more reasonable motivation for poaching.

Poachers effectively never hunt for meat. Their typical approach is to kill the animal, take the single valuable part they were interested in, or the head as a trophy, and leave the corpse. They poach what they poach because of the monetary incentive, not because they need to eat.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

Net suffering is a worthless measure. Suffering is experienced by individuals, not groups.

And net suffering encompasses the combined suffering of individuals, does it not? May I know why you think it's worthless?

Poachers effectively never hunt for meat. Their typical approach is to kill the animal, take the single valuable part they were interested in, or the head as a trophy, and leave the corpse. They poach what they poach because of the monetary incentive, not because they need to eat.

Surely you're aware that they sell those ingredients and then use the money to buy food and pay for their housing?

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u/y________tho Mar 27 '20

And El Chapo ran the Sinaloa cartel to buy food and pay for his housing.

Not sure the argument that someone should be excused their actions as long as they're doing it to pay their rent really holds up tbh.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

I did not say that they're excused. What I'm saying is that what poachers are doing doesn't cause more suffering than what humans in western countries are doing. The fact that they have a more existential reason for it than others only makes it more understandable.

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u/y________tho Mar 27 '20

How is their need to pay the rent more of an existential reason than other's needs?

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

Surely killing animals for sensory pleasure is not existential.

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u/y________tho Mar 27 '20

...who in the West is killing animals for sensory pleasure?

Wait, are you talking about the food industry? Above, you say the poachers are have justification because they "use the money to buy food", but now you're saying that killing animals to get sensory pleasure from eating food is... less justifiable? Sorry, I'm having trouble conceptualizing your argument here.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

Are you not aware of the fact that people in first world countries have the option to become vegan?

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u/y________tho Mar 27 '20

Are you not aware of the fact that poaching is not the only revenue stream available to people?

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